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February 04, 2005

In Defense of Jim Mattis

It's been all over the news. Not the whole quote, mind you.

When the Spousal Unit heard it on the radio driving home from Quantico, NPR oh-so-helpfully cut out the part about slapping women. As did CNN on the evening news. So my husband didn't even hear what the man he once served with had really said:

At a panel discussion in San Diego Tuesday, a top Marine general tells an audience that, among other things, it is "fun to shoot some people."

The comment, made by Lt. Gen. James Mattis, came in reference to fighting insurgents in Iraq. He went on to say, "Actually, its a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. I like brawling."

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

You know it's funny. The media like to talk about balance. How it's so important to "get the whole story". That's why (they intone piously) we must hear over and over again about Abu Ghuraib, and those innocent Iraqi casualties (but not the hundreds of thousands buried in Saddam's mass graves). We need to hear something other than the "party line": the "conventional wisdom".

That's why they can't bear to mention it when one of our boys wins is awarded the Medal of Honor for gallantry.

Perhaps that even explains (in some perverse way) why, when we win an important battle, the headline reads only "10 Marines Killed Today".

They're making sure we get the "other side of the story".

So if balance is so all-fired important, why don't quotes like these get any airtime? They certainly challenge the conventional wisdom about war and Marines. This was General Mattis' guidance to his men:

Our fight is not with the Iraqi people, nor is it with members of the Iraqi army who choose to surrender. While we will move swiftly and aggressively against those who resist, we will treat all others with decency, demonstrating chivalry and soldierly compassion for people who have endured a lifetime under Saddam's oppression.
You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon. Share your courage with each other as we enter the uncertain terrain north of the Line of Departure. Keep faith in your comrades on your left and right and Marine Air overhead. Fight with a happy heart and strong spirit.

For the mission's sake, our country's sake, and the sake of the men who carried the Division's colors in past battles—who fought for life and never lost their nerve—carry out your mission and keep your honor clean. Demonstrate to the world there is "No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy" than a U.S. Marine

My God...what a monster. And this:

"We carry an embedded offensive capability in every convoy," said Major General James Mattis, commander of 1st Marine Division. "To us you don’t drive on through, you stop, you hunt them down and you nail them."

Maj Gen Mattis added: "If they choose to fight they are going to regret it, but we also believe that part of the physicians’ oath that says first do no harm. If to kill a terrorist we have got to kill eight innocent people you don’t kill them."

How about this Message to the Ladies?

The spirits of the Sailors,Soldiers, and Marines remain very high, unperturbed by the heat, enemy action, news, media pessimism, or disturbing misconduct of a few leaderless jail guards at Al Ghraib prison. We are defined by our men, one act at a time - with compassion for the innocent and discrimination when using their weapons, a discrimination unkown to the morally bankrupt enemy we fight. You ladies know these selfless, high spirited troops better than anyone, so you know it's not false modesty when I admit I have the easiest job in the Division, thanks to the attention to duty, good humor, military efficiency and chivalry that these gallant young fellows display every day.

That bloodthirsty brute...

Our Marines take heavy casualties because of Jim Mattis' guidance. To be chivalrous. To keep their honor clean. And it's a price they pay gladly: willingly. They wouldn't have it any other way.

And it weighs heavily on the man. I saw that last week when I listened to him speak. I saw a man who thinks on this often, and with deliberation. Perhaps even with regret. But never with doubt that he did the right thing.

But doing the right thing often comes at a great price.

Was what Jim Mattis said smart? Hell, no. But it was true. I'd wager to say that if you asked most Marines, the reason they joined the Corps was just that: to protect women and children against the kind of bullies who brutilize the weak.

Do they "enjoy" killing? I doubt it. That was probably a poor choice of words. But I imagine there is something tremendously satisfying in removing those scum from the face of the earth once and for all.

After all, that is what we pay these men for. They are soldiers. America's 9/11 force.

The few. The proud. The United States Marines.

And I, for one, am not ashamed of them.

Not now, not ever.

Official Disclaimer: I feel obligated to state for the record that the preceding is my opinion as a private citizen. It does not reflect the opinion of my husband, who is wise enough not to have an opinion (at least in my presence) nor of the United States Marine Corps.

Via AF Sister, Blackfive comments:

Anyway, I hope the counseling was of the form of a drink after work and a "What the hell are you thinking?!" kind of counseling rather than a formal one.

Heh...

James Joyner thinks some people need to lighten up. Amen.

Posted by Cassandra at February 4, 2005 01:53 PM

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» Lt. Gen Mattis, 2.0 from CatHouse Chat
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Here's a really good response to the MSM and others who are whining about a warfighter...Villainous Company: In Defense of Jim Mattis ...You are politely requested to read it. [Read More]

Tracked on February 8, 2005 08:58 PM

Comments

Liked your post and linked to it:

http://paragraphfarmer.blogspot.com/2005/02/who-you-gonna-call.html

One talk radio host in San Diego was still talking about the incident this morning, much impressed by an email he'd received from a retired Marine. Apparently the man sometimes wears a tee shirt saying "Marines die so you don't have to." Sounds about right to me.

Posted by: Patrick O'Hannigan at February 4, 2005 04:05 PM

I for one don't wish to hear a leader of Marines say something all touchy-feely about combat.You go Gen. MAttis...


Greg

Posted by: Greg at February 4, 2005 04:05 PM

I wondered if you were going to cover this.

Yes, he should have been a little more careful in choosing his words with cameras around.

Whatever, he sounds like a hell of a warrior, and we are fortunate to have men like him in our countries service. And no, I don't expect media pukes to get him. But they could present his statements in context, and quit looking for every f**king opportunity to make the military and the Bush admin look bad.

I understand the guy sleeps on a concrete floor in his sleeping bag.

Posted by: Pile On® at February 4, 2005 04:09 PM

Spot On Righteous Rant, Cass. Once again---an EXCELLENT "outting"
Screw the meme scream media!

As I was reading the out of context accusations of this *blood thirsty killer*, I realized how utterly disingenuous it is for the left to even open their mouths.

I site comments here at VC, by "anon"/"ll" about "wine flowing" at any news of the demise of Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld as Exhibit A!.. I recall DU comments about wishing John Ashcroft "would die" when he had gallbladder surgery last year....the list goes on and on and on.

When I hear or read this kind of venemous, outhouse oratory---all I can think of in response to NPR & their LSM ilk, is a good ol'non-lady like Marine term:---- "STFU." (~;

Posted by: CKC of BlogGirls Behaving Badly at February 4, 2005 04:11 PM

I've been staring at my computer for hours wondering whether to hit "publish", but I just felt too strongly about it.

CAIR might "care" to recall that the insurgents are trying to keep their fellow Muslims from voting and having control over their own destiny. And the "insurgents" are purposely targeting Muslim civilians over military in uniform: what a cowardly, callous tactic.

Right now, the only thing that stands between the Iraqis and chaos is our boys in uniform. There is pretty talk (Clinton's I feel your pain) and there is action.

I know what I prefer. Do they?

Posted by: Cassandra at February 4, 2005 04:17 PM

He said nothing wrong.

And if anybody disagrees, I will send him/her to Sudan, just to see how the other half lives.

Then he/she will think that "it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

STFU indeed.

Posted by: Purple Raider at February 4, 2005 04:25 PM

B5 put up a post on this earlier today. I like his take on the "reprimand". He said he hope'd it went something like this "What in the hell were you thinkin', saying that out loud?" - while sharing a pint with his grinning superiors. Now THAT'S a dressing down fit for the crime in my book.

The Marines, Army, Navy and Air Force are all out there for two reasons: Offense and Defense. Both require spilling some blood, so if you can't handle it- don't join the party.

Posted by: AFSister at February 4, 2005 04:26 PM

I dunno Cass. WWJGS?*


*What Would Janene Garafalo say?

Posted by: beautifulatrocities [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 4, 2005 05:33 PM

That's easy jeff... the man's obviously a Nazi :)

Posted by: Cassandra at February 4, 2005 05:48 PM

Cass, I read the article on line in it entirety and
the part about slapping women WAS included. I told
dh about the comments, and well, we both just roared with laughter.

*scuffing my feet here and hanging my head in shame*

I guess I prefer a real man who is gentle enough to bring me a flower or change a diaper and cook a meal
and if necessary, take up arms in defense of his nation.

Not some politically correct twit.

oh, and one more thing, I hope Liberal Larry blogs on it.

Didn't read the article you wrote above. Military people who have been there and done that know exactly what he is talking about and why.

No 'splaining needed here, Loosy.

Posted by: Cricket at February 4, 2005 06:09 PM

Just as an aside, one does not "WIN" a Medal of Honor. One is "awarded" the Medal of Honor or is called a Medal of Honor RECIPIENT.

Other than that... Semper Fi, Sister.

Posted by: FormerMarine at February 4, 2005 06:42 PM

Hey... I just cook and clean up for a Marine :) I've never been one of those wives that wears rank or has all the jargon down.

Correction noted.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 4, 2005 06:52 PM

Amen FormerMarine....

The CMH is "bestowed" for an act so inhumanly heroic as to defy logic.This Army SgtFC certainly qualified...

Greg

Posted by: Greg at February 4, 2005 06:53 PM

The pantywaists don't get it and they never will. They are not the ones that do the fighting.

And I totally understand what Genral Mattis was talking about when he was discussing the rush of killing your enemy. It takes a special someone to be able to fight like a Marine and thank God we have leaders like General Mattis leading our warfighters!

Now, if we want to discuss his penchant for Hollywood Marines we may have a disagreement! (yeah Cass, that snark was for you!) :-o

God Bless our Warriors and their ability to fight!

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 4, 2005 07:10 PM

JHD, he's not my boy. He knows the Unit, but if I walked up and slapped the man across the face, he wouldn't know who the hell I was. We've met, but he'd never remember me :)

I stay the hell away from generals - they're hazardous to your health.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 4, 2005 07:19 PM

You sure The Unit wasn't enlisted? Sounds like a Grunt's view of Officers! he-he!

Got a call from Da Grunt this evening. Turns out his old recruiter has been assigned 2/8 and will be shipping out shortly. It was a hoot to hear about them hooking up after all this time. That SSgt fought tooth and nail to get Da Grunt in the Corps. The 1stSgt running the RS didn't think Da Grunt was the "right stuff" and it got pretty ugly for awhile there. Then when Da Grunt fought for Top Boot and ran the stick at P.I., along with the Merit Stripe, the RS 1stSgt had to eat allot of crow. Da Grunt ran across that same 1stSgt in Okie awhile back and it was an interesting meeting. Combat Ribbons for two tours made for a fine in your face moment for a lowly LCpl. So you see, it's not only the Officer Corps that has their fun and games! ;-)

2/8 has allot of local boys in it. Eleven all total. Four from our local high school and more kids that have grown up around the house. One is my youngest son's best friend. He'll be in good hands with the above mentioned SSgt. I couldn't ask for those young men to be lead by a finer NCO! He'll bring them through and teach them well. Da Grunt and his buds have been training them as much as they could. It's really nice to see the interest the Seniors take in the younger Marines. The addition of a seasoned NCO like this one will really help.

I still owe that SSgt a fishin' trip and he says, "I'll damn well take you up on it when we get back sir". See, I even have young SSgts bamboozled into calling me Sir! HA! It's a respect thing for the Depends Generation that I belong to. Or else he just really wants to go fishin'! ;-)

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 4, 2005 09:37 PM

JHD, I know you're taking good care of that boy (I know he's a man, but to me they're all boys, just like my sons are), but find a way if you can to let him know, one more time, how grateful we all are.

He can't hear it often enough as far as I'm concerned.

We owe him big time.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 5, 2005 09:11 PM

This was a beautiful piece, Cass, I almost missed it! LtGen Mattis was not off-base in his assessment of the enemy. I give him credit for being honest and we should stop whitewashing what it is we're facing here at home for the sake of political correctness, IMO. Cao.

Posted by: Cao at February 6, 2005 08:37 AM

Thanks Cao. That means a lot to me.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 6, 2005 09:00 AM

It is a sad commentary about the state of affairs of the msm and the democratic party that they attack a patriot and war hero for stating simple facts. Liberals are disgraceful.

The public is going to see this for what it is. Gen Mathis ROCKS! The liberals suck.

Ted Kennedy, Al Sharpton, Hillary, Brain Dead Barbara Boxer, all make Conservatives look better. Hugh Hewitt calls these buffoons, "The Gift That Keeps on Giving"

God bless Gen Mattis and USMC

Posted by: JoeS at February 6, 2005 05:47 PM

You tell 'em!

Posted by: Tamquam Leo Rugiens at February 7, 2005 10:14 AM

I find it interesting that the only people defending Mattis at this point are the kill em let god sort em out types. Col. Anderson in defense of Mattis states " He did not personally kill any one in the war." How pathetic. If you ask me, Mattis is toast. He is being taken off invite lists all over DC. He is damaged goods.

This is a response published in the American Thinker.

Dear Col. Anderson,

I read an article in the Arab News highlighting your defense of Lt. General Mattis. I would like to add that I am a former Marine officer myself. I served from 1984-1988. I was a graduate of the PLC Jr./Sr. program in 1981 and 1983.

I can not tell you how bitter and ashamed I feel over the remarks made by Gen. Mattis. His remarks have now been published in over 500 newspapers world wide! As a former Marine trained at the very facility the General now commands, I can not understand people like you defending the indefensible. This story is all over the Arab press. This has no doubt helped recruiting efforts of those opposed to the US in Iraq. How many will die because of the General's loose lips?

Never in my time in the USMC did I ever hear a senior leader speak like this! We were constantly taught how horrible the costs of war are to humanity at large. We as Marines were taught at Quantico that human life has value. A man who considers it fun to shoot people (Especially when he had every major advantage in the fight, Iraq is not Tarawa!) does not get it. His words were not taken out of context. I saw the video of the General, and these are his words. He displayed glee. His face was lit up like a little boy. Words have power! This story can not and should not be SPUN by the Marine Corps. The General said what he said.

Every veteran I have spoken with has made it clear to me the General is way out of line and unfit to be a leader of Marines. His combat record is No defense for his bad judgment. The General has played his hand and shown the world who he really is. I am ashamed of the way the Marine Corps has handled this whole rotten affair. Do you think the President is pleased with General Mattis? General Mattis has stained the very honor of the men he leads. "To keep our honor clean" What a mockery the General has made of Marines Hymn.

This is perhaps the poorest display of judgment I have ever seen by a Marine General. Now the talk radio people are telling people all over America, the General has it right, "They should have fun killing these people, it's their job." This type of garbage even makes it worse. It makes Marines look cold blooded. I will bet you that these statements by the General will ultimately end up in Bartlett's quotations, and hence forth will be a stain on the Marine Corps for years and years to come.

Colonel you have entered the ring on this, and I do not think it will die down soon. I live in Arizona, and people have contacted Senator McCain's office regarding this matter.

The only solution is for General Mattis to go away quietly. What credibility does he now have at Quantico? Is he going to lecture others on moral behavior in general? He will be seen as an hypocrite. Will he be able to teach Marines the moral duties they have to the human beings they are fighting? Are you saying that because men in Afghanistan treat women horribly, they should be shot on site with out a trial? Do Marines now go into wars making the rules of who lives and dies based on their personal moral agenda? Should Marines conduct raids on the Porno industry in California and shoot them on site because they don't like the way women are being abused in the production of pornography? Should all men in the USA who abuse women be shot by Marines with out a trial? What is all this saying Colonel? Seems the General makes it clear he goes by his own rule of the gun, not the rule of law (UCMJ) enacted by the will of the people at large. Are not our Marines dying almost daily in Iraq fighting so democracy can emerge there?

This issue will not die. As a matter in fact it has opened a can of worms. The tooth paste is out of the tube. The remarks made by General Mattis will live in infamy. He will from now on be known as the General who says, it's "fun to kill people." He has thoroughly embarrassed the President, and Secretary of Defense! The President is constantly telling the world that we are a compassionate people who believe in the sanctity of human life! When people in high positions such as Gen. Mattis state that it's fun to shoot people (for any reason what so ever), we have lost it. The General sounds like an SS officer of another sad time in history.

I am convinced that these remarks will now cause an intensified effort to kill Marines in Iraq! These men who the General made clear "Got no manhood" will want to show Marines how much they have their manhood. The General is actually helping the enemy with his macho stupidity, and extreme lack of judgment.

In my opinion Colonel, the remarks you made in the Arab News do not make you look very smart. Your argument is weak, and will not hold much water. My bet is that the President is furious with General Mattis, and actions will be taken. The man is an embarrassment to the United States. He does not reflect the moral character of the entire American people at large, nor the highest standards of moral leadership required of men who are the ultimate managers of violence. This was not some drunk 18 year old PFC making these statements, it was a Lt. General in UNIFORM, who just happens to command the most important training command in the USMC! War is the last resort among people. Innocent women, children and the elderly are killed and horribly wounded for life, because they just happened to get in the way. It is never fun, NEVER! When our military leaders start saying it's fun, we have become a sick and depraved people only worthy of the harshest judgment brought down by our Creator. This is a sad time for the history of the United States. General Mattis is a disgrace to the uniform he wears, and to the people he leads.

Sincerely,


Posted by: Steve at February 7, 2005 04:23 PM

Steve, did you bother to read my post?

Or his actual quotes? About thinking before shooting? About the need to balance chivalry and ferocity? About keeping your honor clean?

"SOME people are fun to kill."

And, as I said, poor choice of words.

If the guy had gone on and on about it, I would not be defending him. If he had said he enjoyed slaughtering people indiscriminately, NO ONE would be defending him.

All I did was to point out the bulk of the other things he has said. And frankly, I believe actions speak louder than words anyway. I tend to be a bit flip, but my actions are not cavalier, not flippant. Judge me by what I DO, not by some casual remark I might make in a light moment.

And get a life here. Try judging him by the actions of his commands - they have not slaughtered indiscriminately. That is the very real product of his leadership. JUDGE HIM BY THAT.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 7, 2005 04:32 PM

This political correctness crap has got to stop.

People have got to grow up and learn to distinguish between what's real and what is window dressing.

I'm sick and tired of people who talk and claim credit through their words for things, while the real doers get nothing. No one cares because they don't emote enough in public - they're too busy making things happen.

Give me a break.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 7, 2005 04:34 PM

"Kill 'em all and let God sort them out types" huh? Oh would you please grow up?! Just once take your head out of your ass long enough to smell what's really cookin'! Did you serve under Mattis? Do you even give a rat's ass how many Marines sacrificed themselves implementing Gen Mattis' "No Better Friend - No Worse Enemy" policy? Do you not have any friggin' idea of the humanitarian orders and training that came from Gen. Mattis? You Steve are a friggin' hypocrit and only whining about one side on the story. You say you were a Marine but yet you have a problem with facing evil in combat? Wow! How wise of you!

Aw hell, read this article. People like you annoy me to no end so let someone with the credentials of the War College speak. But then he's probably just another old "blood and guts" to you too! Just what the hell do you think goes on in combat Steve? And yeah, there is a MAJOR rush when closing with your enemy. Bigtime! You worry that someone will take up arms against us because of Gen. Mattis' remarks? Po' baby! That scares the beegeezus out of me! Where are you going to run and hide? Ashamed? Yeah, that figures! :-(

Washington Times
February 7, 2005
Pg. 19

'Intimate Killing'

Close combat and the art of war

By Robert H. Scales

On Wednesday, I had the pleasure of moderating a panel on the future of warfare. Marine Lt. Gen. Jim Mattis was one of the panelists. During his remarks he made a statement about the pleasure that young soldiers and marines feel when killing in close combat, a statement that seems to have gotten him in trouble with the fourth estate - prompting an apology and some counseling by the Marine Corps Commandant.

First, a confession: I know Gen. Mattis. He is a central figure in the book I coauthored with Williamson Murray, "The Iraq War: A Military History." For those of you who might have the image of a knuckle-dragging troglodyte, let me assure you that he is one of the most urbane and polished men I have known. He can quote Homer as well as Sun Tzu and has over 7,000 books in his personal library.

Jim is the product of three decades of schooling and practice in the art of war. No one on active duty knows more about the subject. He is an infantryman, a close-combat Marine. He is one of those very few who willingly practices the art of what social scientists term "intimate killing." Those of us who have engaged in the act understand what he was trying to explain to an audience of defense technologists and contractors.

Intimate killing is a primal aspect of warfare unchanged since the beginning of civilization. It involves a clash of two warriors, one on one, armed with virtually identical weapons. The decision goes to the soldier with the right stuff, the one with the greater cunning, strength, guile, ruthlessness and will to win.

For a moment put yourself in the place of a young soldier or Marine fighting house to house in the mean streets of Fallujah. Burdened with over 60 pounds of gear, sweat dripping constantly into your face, you can't stop shaking from the fear of what the enemy has in store for you around the next corner. Just ahead is a darkened house with doors and windows closed and shuttered. The only sound is the crunching of your boots on the trash and broken glass as you move in slow motion to surround the dwelling. You watch as the sergeant signals you to cover a side entrance. Through the faint haze you can see your buddy kick in the door and immediately come face to face with an insurgent who greets him with a burst of AK-47 fire that tears a hole in his chest. Your buddy doesn't die. The terrorist wants him to live just long enough for his buddies to rush in for a rescue and become additional trophies to be laid at the altar of heaven.

Now, it's your turn. You use your superior discipline and skill to approach the insurgent such that you're detected just at the last second. Both of you raise your weapons simultaneously and open fire in a crushing tear of bullets that scatter and ricochet wildly across the room. One bullet finds the bad guy and he falls in a bloody lump just inches from your boots.

What exactly do you "feel" at this moment? Relief, to be sure, but also something else that cannot be explained to anyone who hasn't committed an act of intimate killing. It's not joy, exactly, more like exhilaration and an enormous sense of self-satisfaction that in one of the most primal challenges - where all the satellites, planes, ships and smart weapons are of no use whatever - you prevailed, one on one, over a diabolically evil enemy.

Who should be offended by the emotions of "joy" or whatever one feels at the moment of a successful kill? It's a fair fight, you win and the bad guy loses. It's that simple. One more terrorist will not threaten your unit or your buddies. Remember, this isn't a reality show. There are no retakes. Donald Trump doesn't fire you and the price for second place is death.

My point simply is this: We must celebrate the fact that we have men like Jim Mattis willing to devote (and give) their lives when necessary to commit an act that most of those in our society would be horrified to even contemplate. If you are offended by these emotions, then seriously consider joining an Army or Marine infantry unit so that you can demonstrate how to kill an enemy in a more humane and politically correct manner.

Until such an unlikely day occurs, we must all remember that leaders like Gen. Mattis and the men he commands are the rarest commodities that a protected society like ours can produce. All they want is the opportunity to serve a country that truly appreciates the difficulty and dangers inherent in the duties they perform, duties that very few are willing even to contemplate.

Retired Maj. Robert H. Scales is a former commander of the Army War College.


Posted by: JarheadDad at February 7, 2005 05:49 PM

WOW! Well said, JHD! Props, wild applause, all the above.

When a rebuttal comes that starts out "yeah, butt"--I'll know in advance they've already lost the argument.

Perhaps those peacniks who so...ahem... VIOLENTLY protest war are the ones who foolishly believe it's nothing more than "sport" for the warriors.

A desire & commitment to eliminate evil-- at the risk of your own life-- is far from being a mere "sport".

Posted by: CKC at February 7, 2005 07:21 PM

I can't fathom the angst, the intense self-inspection Gen. Mattis is going thru now....being taken off invite lists ALL AROUND Malfunction Junction (D.C.).The horrors of war are as real now as when Joseph Conrad wrote....
Damaged goods....truly tragic.

But, on a lighter note-----Cass gets a plug from americanthinker.com.


Greg

Posted by: Greg at February 7, 2005 08:12 PM

Many thanks to all who have blogged and otherwise made known their understanding of respect for and support of LtGen Jim Mattis. It is awkward to try to defend one's brother and be regarded as credible, so I am doubly appreciative of the many powerful and supportive statements and arguments posted on his behalf.

His family and many friends are gratified that so many others recognize what he has given and continues to give to his country, and to his Marines and sailors. He is the most selfless person I have ever known. As a former Marine I am proud to claim him as a friend and as a brother.

Posted by: Tom at February 7, 2005 08:26 PM

Actually CKC, I owe you, the board, and yes, even Steve an apology for losing my temper. Do you remember where Da Grunt was last April? In a little hellhole called Fallujah? You remember who his Commanding Officer was? That's right, Gen. Mattis. I personally attended two funerals of young Marines, one of which used to break bread at our table, that died implementing the compassionate and humanitarian policies of Gen. Mattis. They were HONORED to be a a part of those policies. When some buttmunch comes on here blasting a man, no a warrior, of the stripe of Gen. Mattis I have a major problem with that.

I lived his policies through one of my own sons for the past 3+ years. I've watched these young fireaters learn the training set forth by Gen. Mattis and it's personal. To try and paint an honest-to-God hero as something relating to a Neanderthal and call for his resignation is not only dishonest but intestinally bankrupt. Mattis is a Marine's Marine and By God we don't need pantywaist media types or former desk jockeys trying to run down a man that is instrumental in the very policies we fight under and win hearts and minds. Especially one sitting on his ass stateside not having a shot fired at him in anger OR seeing the atrocities firsthand of the evil we are fighting. Gen. Mattis' name should be Shouted From The Mountain instead of some buttwarmer calling for his resignation due to that same buttwarmer's feeling "ashamed".

Yeah, I've got my boxers in a bunch and for that I do humbly apologize. But I'll be damned if I'll hear any tripe from anyone slighting one of the Corps' greatest warriors since Chesty Puller! Obviously Steve has chosen to forget Corps History and for that he has to answer to his own conscience!!!

Warfighting is NOT a friggin' politically correct beauty contest. In battle you fight to stay alive and keep your buddies alive. There IS a rush associated with warfighting and walking out of battle. General Mattis lives for his Marines. That says it all!! End of story!

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 7, 2005 08:27 PM

Sorry for not being an elegant speaker Tom but at least you know it's heartfelt! :-)

Please pass on a hearty Semper Fi to the General and tell him his Marine Families are in full support! And this Warlord Dad in particular!

God Bless General Mattis and your entire family Tom. We've got your six! ;-)

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 7, 2005 08:33 PM

Greg, I cannot tell a lie. As much as I'd love you to believe they reached down from on high, saw my post and said "We simply must have it", that's not the case.

When I read Steve's comment, I broke my longstanding rule about never shopping my posts and emailed Thomas Lifson. The reason I don't shop my posts is that I decided a long time ago that I'd rather have people link to me because they enjoy reading, and I don't want this blog to be about getting lots of traffic. That's not why I do this. But in this case, I felt strongly enough about the message that I wanted it to get a wider distribution if possible.

I told him I didn't care if he linked to me or not, but I hoped he would give it a read and use it if he found it worthy.

Being the gentleman he is (and kind to children, the dim of wit, and small animals to boot) he took pity on me and linked to my post. There's no accounting for taste.

Posted by: Cassandra at February 7, 2005 08:37 PM

Tom, we owe him (and you, and your family) more than we can ever possibly repay.

God bless you :)

Posted by: Cassandra at February 7, 2005 08:40 PM

Cass, then he showed good taste!!!


Tom, pass on to the General my heartfelt thanks for a job well done.Semper Fidelis.And a George Orwell quote comes to mind....."Good men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"

Greg

Posted by: Greg at February 7, 2005 08:54 PM

JHD,

At the risk of sounding patronizing--There is a virtue known as "righteous indignation". I guess I came away from your [righteous] rant having remembered the 98% wheat rather than any chaff. You weren't bitin' my head off so I guess I didn't feel I was owed an apology.

When the character, honor,integrity, sacrifice of someone is being shat upon by those who are completely void of either--it is beyond contemptible!!

Perhaps there's some "class envy" directed at the haves from the have nots. However that's still not the fault or problem of the haves. They simply opted OUT of having their spine and their *pair* removed.

I pray for each ill informed, candy-a$$ ingrate that seeks to disparage & blackball Gen. Mattis there will be 7 who stand up in his behalf & defense. He and the President are actually in good company to a certain extent, are they not? Still in all rabies is typically more fatal for the rabid than their victim.

God will vindicate & restore honor to whom it is due.

Is *Tom* REALLY Gen. Mattis' brother of the same mother? Yikes! so near the presence of greatness out here in cyber world. I'm rarely star struck, but my face feels a little flushed about now.
[its only taken me about 30 minutes to finish this post with interruptions, et al]

See Cass?...see?...see? *jabbing w/elbow*

Posted by: CKC at February 7, 2005 09:22 PM

If any body can take a deep breath and step away from the cult of Mattis, they will see that what I am saying is correct. The proof is in the fact that only Mattis's followers are defending him. The veterans I have talked to, mainly Vietnam veterans, (one who lived through Khe Sahn) expressed disgust over the comments uttered by Mattis. What I am saying does not seem to be getting much of an arguement, but instead emotional screaming, name calling, and shoot the messenger stuff. This is usually the way liberals react when the truth of the matter cuts home. Conservative fanatics share many of the same traits as liberal fanatics.

The bottom line is that big time Washington is not defending Mattis. He is on his way out. Get over it. Mattis is not very smart. He dug his own political grave, and shot himself with his own words. This is not the first time this has happened. Washington is a cruel place, and the only people that are for Mattis are his friends, and in Washington that does not mean much. You are not ever going to see Mattis sitting with the Commandant during the evening parade at 8th & I. Scream and yell at me all you want, but Mattis did this to himself. From now on, the whole world knows Mattis as the General that finds it fun to kill people. Sorry folks, but this is going to be the Mattis of history. The President won't get within 5 miles of Mattis's photograph, he is now officially persona non grata.

Also take a look at what he said about the people he liked shooting in Afganastan. I agree these men are scum bags, and their lives are pathetic.

But before you throw stones, better make sure you have no sin.

Some Marines beat up their wives regularly and molest their children. This, just like anywhere else in America happens. It is documented. I had a troop who was convicted of burning his little boys face with cigarettes, another for rape of a 14 year old girl. Under Mattis type thinking, they should have been taken outside and shot. Before Generals in the Marine Corps start talking about the maltreatment of women, they better look in the mirror. I can remember the whore houses in the PI loaded with married Marines. I also saw several high ranking married officers use the services of prostitutes on a regular basis. It was an open joke, that when you get home you better not give the clap to your wife. Does Mattis want people shot on site for adultry as well? It seems through his own words recorded on tape, he is judge, jury and executioner. Mattis does not fit into the America of today or yesterday. He will be put out to pasture and forgotten.

Posted by: Steve at February 7, 2005 09:52 PM

I will drink with the General any time and piss on his critics. Anyone who is not happy at the death of a baby-raping girlie-stoning maniac is himself really bent.

Posted by: Walter E. Wallis [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 7, 2005 10:23 PM

Mr. Wallis,

There are a lot of bad things going on in the world. I have been in 30+ countries and have seen how man can be wolf to man. I want every one to remember a little village in what used to be called South Vietnam. It is called My Lai. Over 500 unarmed old men, women and children were murdered by American soldiers in cold blood. This is why people with level heads watch words of people like Mattis. I am not saying Mattis would ever involve himself in some thing like this, nor am I saying our Marines would either. When leadership breaks down, this crap happens. However, it is now the way he is being perceived. We as a country do not ever want this to happen again. When leaders joke about killing people, we are maybe only a few steps away from My Lai in their minds. There have been plenty of My Lai's since 1968, and thankfully it has not been American soldiers doing it. It is up to the American military leadership to watch for this type of sign at every level. Don't be fooled, the Pentagon is not ever going to be fond of Mattis again. The world sees Mattis as an assinine brute, and the press is not going to ease up. He can't change his words. Get over it man, Mattis is considered loose with his mouth, that is why he is not being defended. Also, keep in mind how bad his stupid talk has undermined the President. Just read the Arab posts, and see what they are saying about Mattis now. It aint pretty folks. The White House really needs people like Mattis opening their big fat stupid mouth. Is the kind of help the President really needs right now? Can any one show how Mattis is helping our President?

Posted by: steve at February 7, 2005 10:56 PM

The "cult of Mattis" Steve? I believe that would be the warfighters not the 8th & I desk warmers. You are correct that Washington is a cruel place but Washington doesn't have their collective asses on the front lines now do they? Again you piss on the History of the Corps. By your esteemed evaluation Chesty Puller would be another of the knuckledraggers by osmosis. Celebrate your chair old salt 'cause you damn sure can't celebrate being a warrior.

Again, you may just be surprised at what a well organized group of "Mattis fanatics" can do. You espouse everything political in the Corps but have you truly dealt with the entire cadre of Corps Families, pissed off, and targeting 8th & I. Ask your Nam Marines if they remember certain onslaughts by irate Corps Families and listen to the collective fear in their voices. You want a fight? You've got one. It is now time to mobilize the troops and you, of all people, should know what our Corps Family organization is like. It's not real smart to take a dump where you eat hoss!

I've been known to name call a time or two. I can also back it up. Now you've gone and made me break my New Years resolution to become a kindler, gentler old fart. So much for that one. You think 8th & I has been catching hell over the General's comments? Batten it down son, you ain't seen nothin' yet! You made the challenge and we'll accept!

We are at war and you want to challenge the very people that support you? Yeah, you gotta' be 8th & I to be that dumb. But that's OK. We'll see how the Commandant likes a mutiny if this proceeds along the lines you gleefully say it will. You are enjoying this so muc that I am really beginning to doubt you are a Marine. We'll see how the Commandant likes losing his Senior Marines at re-up time and likes having Marine Parents going public attacking a decision that is based purely on politics. Talk about warfighting! We'll see just how far the desk commanders really want to push this thing! You don't think the MSM wouldn't absolutely jump at the chance to publicize dirty laundry? They'd be all over it like white on rice! The fallout would cripple the political side of the Corps for a long time to come. It would hurt the Corps in general. I doubt seriously if the Commandant would allow that for a minute!

Two types of Marines Steve. Warfighters and desk jockies. You've shown us your true colors! We're getting ready to piss in your cornflakes!

BTW, some cops beat up their wives. Some firemen. Some airline pilots. Some construction workers. Some accountants do too! No segment of society is immune but not even close to the abuse of the part of the world you are trying draw a comparison with. The Corps is nothing if not a microcosm of America. Have you been on the ground in the Middle East or elsewhere where they routinely beat their women? I carry a knife slash scar over my right eye from taking on one of these brave warriors in my youth. Silly me thinking like a Southerner with chivalry and all! And yet you are so disengenuous as to compare the overall treatment of women in that part of the world to the Corps? Sounds like you need to brought out back of the barn and read from the good book! What a sham argument that is! You really need to get out more! How about a rifle squad of Senior Marines in Mahmudiyah? Then come back and tell us that we're simply screaming at the messenger ad nauseum! How can you be so morally bankrupt as to even attempt that type of comparison? Didn't standing on the Yellow Footprints mean a damn thing to you? You cannot even make a solid factual argument. And you call me hysterical? I'm not hysterical. I'm really, really ticked! What a load of two hump camel excrement you are!

Where are your stories about the unbelievable support groups within the Corps? Where are your stories of the Marine Moms? Where are your stories of all the charitable work the Corps does? You live in the negative and it sucks for you! We prefer to live in the positive and help each other at every turn. But that doesn't fit in with your agenda now does it?

Now it's My Lai? Why don't you just throw Nicaragua in there too? I can tell you stories about that one. Shoot, just throw in Abu Ghraib while you at it. Who's being hysterical now? That dog won't hunt either!

General Mattis has the full support of the warfighters in the Corps and military men and women of all branches. Period! If 8th & I wants to cross the line in the sand in regard to this matter they will do so at their own peril!

Which from reading your posts it looks like that's your agenda to begin with!

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 7, 2005 11:07 PM

I thought perhaps this would be an appropriate time to share something very cool that, I just found out at the Superbowl party last night, had happened last Sunday at my church. It's not a brag on my church, but it's to spotlight, again, how much the troops are appreciated. Being touched by the THANK YOU TROOPS commercial by Anheiser-Busch, I told my friends the story [who had missed it] about the embrace between (KIA) Marine Sgt. Norwoods parents and the purple fingered Iraqi woman [left fatherless because of Saddams thugs]-- at the STOTUA. They then told ME about last Sunday mornings service.

It was election Sunday in Iraq. Technically a few hours after the polls there closed. I could kick myself for "playing hookie" from the actual service. My rationale was I couldn't wake up and I didn't want to mess with the slick roads I had been on just a few hours before for the all night prayer meeting for Iraq.

Unrehearsed and unbeknownst to ALL in attendance at least, my Pastor asked all those who had served in Iraq, and those family members who had a loved one currently in Iraq to come forward to the stage (the new biggee building is in the round with a center stage).

All the military represented formed a line aallll the way around the stage, one person deep. Then my pastor spoke about how their being away serving in Iraq, they were not able to invest and/or generate finances as they could, had they been home. He then opened it up for anyone in the congregation (anywhere from 9 to 11,000-- including kids before they left for their respective kids church) to come forward pick any one of the Mils and thank them and give whatever they wanted or could...be it a dime or $10,000. Eventually the ushers grabbed trash bags for each Military person, placing it on the floor right in front of their feet where into people dropped loads of cash. ALL ages (kids included), all shapes, sizes, colors, economic status, profession, etc etc etc went forward offering hugs, appreciation, thanks, cash. As the money flowed...so did the tears, apparently mostly from the Military and/or their family member standing there. My friend says, it looked to him like EVERYONE there went forward to show gratitude & give. What a way to start off a service!

I can't speak with certainty for any of the Military represented there. Whether or not they ever caved to divorce...the temptation of adultery, anger, fornication, violence, gluttony, drunkenness, lying, road rage, insulting someone, flipping someone off, etc etc etc etc.

I do know there are a few weird people at my church. There are also some who I know of who had been shacking up before marriage, some separated and divorced. Gluttons. Smokers. Liars, Con artists. Partyers.I'm sure there's PLENTY of things about PLENTY of people I don't know.

I'm hardly worried about my Pastor being a pedophile, adulterer or the like. He's never pretended to be something he's not. And if he does, he eventually admits to it.

Yet there are church leaders, priests, et al., who have made not only a mess of their lives, but their families and churches by making poor, adulterous or otherwise choices and decisions.

So considering the fact that this was a large group of imperfect people, pastored by an imperfect Pastor, paying tribute and honor to another group of imperfect (military) people----does that make the whole friggin' thing a sham? And right up until reading Steves post, I thought it was such an incredibly cool thing.

Perhaps my pastor should do a recall. But then who calls him to accountability for initiating such an event involving such--across the board-- imperfect, fallible people. *sigh* what to do..... Oh well, it was nice while it lasted. I guess too, next time I see the "THANK YOU" ad from Anheuser-Bush, I'll have to put a black cover over my TV. After all I'm not fond of beer or alcohol abuse.
*deep sigh* Vanity vanity..all is vanity.

Posted by: CKC at February 7, 2005 11:29 PM

I've about got Steve figgered out CKC. I think we've been trolled and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Too much of what he says doesn't jibe with the Corps and follows certain party lines. I'll let everyone make their own decision on this one!

Here's my favorite quote by a First Lady:

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" - Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

Man! I wish I was at your church that Sunday! ;-)

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 7, 2005 11:39 PM

JHD,
You and me BOTH wish we'd been there!. At least you have a legit logistical *excuse*~! harumph.
I just checked and that service isn't yet up at the Listen Online at the website. I don't know how much of the tribute will be on it. There's the real possibility it's been edited out and only the Pastors message is available...BUT it's worth checking from time to time >HERE. You can scroll down & select the "Browse Our Archive" drop down window and check for Jan 30th. I'll gladly ask about the possibility of a video though.

"Troll" crossed my mind when reading S's first post. #1-as you pointed out, it sounded a bit like "party line" anti-mil mantra. #2.--something former Marine Mack said once at TOB re: a suspected troll...that real veterans typically specify branch, rank, et al, of their service. Trolls don't. They're generic about alleged mil service. (I just handed em poseur ammo, didn't I? (~;)oh well)

Posted by: CKC at February 7, 2005 11:57 PM

Dear Jar Head Dad,

I do not understand where you are coming from. Because I don't fall in line and defend what Mattis said, all of a sudden I am a liar, a troll, my service to the Corps was worthless because I was not in combat, like that was really my fault. According to you sir, every Marine who served in peace time is a loser. Tell it to my best friend and college roomate that slamed his Cobra into the side of a mountain in the fog. I guess his service was worthless to tough guy warriors like you. Tell it to the Marines im my amtrak platoon who were seriously burned fighting a fire on USS Barbour County, I guess they are worthless garbage as well. I am not putting down the entire Marine Corps or their family's!!! As a matter of fact you are putting down Marines that served. I love the Corps, especially the enlisted ranks. I never cared much for officers, even though I was one. Most of them were a bunch of fakes, looking for advancement. I cherish the memories of all the Marines from Nam and Korea and even WWII that trained , mentored and taught me how to be a Marine, and this is why I am so mad at Mattis. Clear your head out and realise that Mattis brought all this down. Mattis said it, he said it on tape. Mattis needs to answer for his own lack of judgement. You accuse me of alot of evil stuff sir. It seems we are reaching a time in this country when people who don't see eye to eye on matters, the other side is seen as cowards and traitors. Name calling and threats. I served with honor, and am proud of doing what I did back then. You accuse me of pissing on Marine Corps history. Where have I done it? Please show me. I am trying to explain what kind of a jam Mattis has got the Corps in right now, and all you do is attack me, like I said that stuff, and I am bringing all this stuff down. I was never a true believer, when it comes to the Corps. I was my own man when I was in, and I am my own man now. You can call me all the names you want to in order to distract what is really going on with Mattis, and what he said, and what a load of s@@t it has brought down on the Corps. I do not take pleasure in this. I have no agenda. Mattis does not impress me. Why does it make you so mad that I will not bow down to the alter of General Mattis. I am saying it is Time for Mattis to go away, he has done enough damage. He is helping bring back the baby killer image we had after Nam, We worked our asses off to get rid of that crap image, and turn the Corps back into a proffesional outfit. If Mattis is so great, where are all the retired Generals, like my favorite, General Robert H. Barrow, coming out ofthe wood work to defend him. It aint gonna happen pappy, because Mattis aint worth it.

God speed to you sir, and I think if you knew me, you would actually like me, and maybe realise that those of us who served in peace time did the best we could with what we had to get ready to go at a moments notice. I am proud of the men I served with, and those of us back then were in a Corps that was broken and on the mend. A lot of fine men signed up back then because of a guy named Ronald Wilson Reagan. We fixed it, we trained hard, and we were ready. We built the Corps that is fighting right now. You or no other person will ever take away what we did back then. We got rid of the dope, and the racist pigs that were everywhere in the 70's. They could not hack it in the new Corps that Reagan helped us build. They were run out on their asses.

Posted by: Steve at February 8, 2005 12:39 AM

For all the people that accuse me of being a liar:

PLC Junior July-August 1981 Company C 4th Platoon Camp Upshur Quantico, Va.

PLC Senior 1983 Company C 3rd Platoon
Chap Annex Main Side Quantico, Va.

1984-85 The Basic School lived in Bobo Hall
1985 Assault Amphibian Officer Course, Camp Del Mar, Camp Pendleton

1985-87 3rd AAV Battalion 1st MarDiv Camp Pendleton Charlie Company 3rd Platoon Commander

1987-88 1st LAV Battalion Company C XO

1986 TAD with my AAV Platoon to Fox 2/5 deployed to Ft. Sherman Panama.

Posted by: Steve at February 8, 2005 12:57 AM

Steve,
I can only speak for myself, but I don't recall labeling you *a liar* as such. Suspecting you might be a troll doesn't equate to actually tagging you with LIAR.

If you are who you say you are & have been in the Mil, I also don't care to trivialize or berate your service--but rather, I thank you for it.

On this one thing I think all of us can agree--that truth & right prevail. Which demands that the MSM does not demonize a person or feed a worthless frenzy--ESPECIALLY in a time of war, based on convenient editing, soundbites of what Cass stated, is probably a poor choice of words. I think it a bit overly dramatic you to imply Gen Mattis' verbal gaffe, if you will, will undo decades of building of the USMC & the Militaries image or morale.

There is a difference between a poor choice of words and a genuinely sinister, thoughtless, reckless, kill happy thug.

Seems the MSM's squeezing every possible drop of "life" out of Abu Ghraib wasn't as fruitful as they hoped it would be in disparaging the military & the war effort in Iraq. Try as they may, the msm's Vietnam soldier image of blood thirsty baby killers hasn't been wholly successfully resuscitated & projected onto our troops today.

PC has turned this country into a friggin image obsessed madhouse & continues to [attempt to] emasculate and demoralize the military in all their UNdoings!.

But the good news is: This ain't Walter Cronkites, nor Hanoi Jane & Johns world no more.

The only value of the PC crowd, as I see it, is their *diamond cutting ability*-- from the lower oraface out of which most choose to think and speak.

I'm so FRIGGIN' sick of their undermining and deceit as well as being subjected to their ongoing lascivious 3 way tryst with the liberal pols and the *poor misunderstood* frickin' terrorists!--especially when THAT costs us far more in military [and contract civilian!!] lives than the Generals poorly chosen verbiage ever could---without, of course, the help of the media to give those chosen words a good old Abu Ghraib dead horse beating!

I've read a few e-mails at various blogs, that the General has permitted others to post. I find it difficult to match the face of a vampire fanged, reckless, kill happy, *warmonger* with the mind & heart conveyed in those letters as well as reading of Cass's own experience in hearing/seeing the man speak.

Could it be Steve, that even out of what appears to be a genuine concern for the USMC, a fair portion of your anger might be misdirected?

All that aside-- again, giving you the benefit of the doubt--- a sincere thanks for your service & sacrifice.

Posted by: CKC at February 8, 2005 02:22 AM

You've received a lot of comments on this one, I just wanted you to know that I'm grateful for your comments and have linked to you at my blog here:

http://unconsideredtrifles.blogspot.com/2005/02/who-is-it-that-hath-warnd-us-to-walls.html

Also, I want to thank you and all military families who sacrifice so much for our country.
Sincerely,
--Will

Posted by: WillyShake at February 8, 2005 07:22 AM

Thank you for the link Will, and for stopping by :)

Posted by: Cassandra at February 8, 2005 07:30 AM

Where in the Sam Hill did I call you a liar? By questioning your obvious lack of support for a fine warrior? You said yourself that you are your own man and some of the things you say just don't jive. If I had called you a liar you'd damn sure know it!

Now I'm denigrating peacetime Marines? Uh, OK! I knew this young LCpl one time that came aboard my ship to provide security. I was checking duty rosters one evening and I happened to catch his name as it was the same as mine. The young gun was itching to get in the fight but was never inserted. I saw him again when he deploying for Beirut. He got there just in time to evac. He was killed in a chopper crash two years later. He never got his chance. And you think I denigrate those Marines? Not hardly!! Marines go where they're told and perform their duties to the best of their abilities. But yes we do celebrate the warriors. That's what Marines are trained for!

BUT, you make the point about Mattis whether you realize it or not. He is a warfighter. Someone you aspired to be. The same as ANY Marine. Now you want to cut him off at the knees because of a loose comment? How righteous of you! All of my old buds are retired now. None made it past Full Bird. They too were warfighters and not politicians. It is so rare that someone of the fighting ability of Gen. Mattis makes it up the food chain that I would think you'd be supportive instead of "ashamed"! Mattis' strategies and warfighting policies are of historical proportions. Yet you are "ashamed" of him. THAT is what pisses me off to no end Steve. THAT is a denigration of your own and why I say you don't care about Corps History. You actually care what the mythical "Arab Street" thinks. You think that Mattis' comments are a negative and hurt the Corps. Guess what? I sure as hell don't see it that way. I see his comments as a positive! Those asshats of evil reincarnated are scared to death of warfighters. They KNOW that as long as we have men like Gen. Mattis their days are numbered. Yet you would help with their "innocent" portrayal of their "victim" status! To hell with them. Let 'em stand up and face us head on. You know they won't because they are cowards hiding behind women's skirts and small children. Sorry, I don't see Mattis' comments as anything more than a fair warning to the enemies of the United States. HE WAS SPEAKING NOTHING MORE THAN THE TRUTH!!! THAT'S the point I'm drilling you with.

Just don't think for a minute that I would degrade any Marines' service except for those particular politicians. I'm not a fan of politicians in any walk of life. They are a necessary evil to me and to only be tolerated. I've seen too many warfighter's career buried because he wasn't politically correct. And you believe this is all worth the career of another one? Yep! that sure pisses me off! There are thousands of Marines pulling duty in places they don't want to be. Doing the mundane. Standing on the wall and itching to be in the fight. I'd rather think you'd celebrate someone like Gen. Mattis as a true Leader of Marines instead of showing the disrespect you do to such a warfighter. I take it you feel just any Marine can fill his shoes huh? It's the disrespect you have that will continue to place us at odds!

But you're your own man, right? Doesn't sound like it to me! Sounds like some wanker has got your ear! Or you too are playing politics with a Marine's Marine!

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 8, 2005 09:28 AM

<Sarcasm>
You mean to tell me a Marine said something politically incorrect in a candid situation? Oh. My. God. My entire image of the Marine Corp has been shattered. </Sarcasm>

Posted by: Masked Menace© at February 8, 2005 10:24 AM

Dear Jar Head Dad,

I guess it has come down to this. We part ways when it comes to Mattis. I see things in Mattis's words, and you see things in Mattis's words. I have not cut Mattis off at the knees, he has done it to himself.

Mattis is not the first General do go down by his own stupid words, he has joined a long list. The founders of this Nation found it proper to put the command of the military in the hands of civilians. Like it or not. There is a reason why the civilian leadership can not and will not support public comments like the ones Mattis so stupidly made. The President represents ALL the people that live in this fair land of ours. Mattis has underminded the President and his goals in that part of the world. Why not denegrate the President for not supporting Mattis? Why me? I am not in any way alone in my disdain for what Mattis said. You can hate me, berate me, pray for my death, kill me, curse the day I was born, and piss on my grave if it makes you feel any better. I can not and will not change my opinion on this matter. I do not hate you, nor do I hate Mattis. I hate what Mattis said. Again, I'm far from alone on this, and will not change my view of what I see as the big picture of what comments like Mattis's can lead to. History has shown very clearly what actually happens when this type of a spirit takes hold and snow balls into insanity. The people we are fighting love to spill our blood, and relish in it, even dance in the streets over it. If we do the same, what makes us any different. This is the way I see it Jar Head Dad, I know you hate me for it, but I am who I am. God speed to you and yours.


Posted by: Steve at February 8, 2005 12:20 PM

The difference, Steve, is the you care about being politically correct with absolutely no mistakes, JHD doesn't. I doubt he hates you, he is definitely mad at you. But there is a big difference between mad and hate.

It comes down to priorities. Do you want Marine leadership that talks in pretty language and never says anything that could be offensive to anyone, ever, or do you want Marine leadership that trains Marines to become warfighters. Keep in mind, you can't always have both. Your priority is politics, JHD's is warfighters.

Were Mattis' remarks politically incorrect, sure. But I'm not ready to hang a great soldier and leader over one remark made in a light moment especially when it drew laughter from the troops themselves. Not many people there seemed too concerned about it. Why are you? 'Cause it looks bad to a press that already want's to paint the military in a bad light? Please. If it weren't this, it'd be something else.

You say your not alone in thinking Mattis is a disgrace. If you bother to look around there are also a lot on Mattis' side that say you need to lighten up. They can't all be idiots worshipping at the altar of Mattis.

Posted by: Masked Menace© at February 8, 2005 12:56 PM

Steve made a crack that I let slide earlier, but I feel I have to comment on it. He said that only the "cult of Mattis" people were defending him now.

That's ridiculous.

I met Mattis one time, in the O Club, years ago over beers. I stay far away from generals, they're only one rank up from my husband so they can neither hurt nor help him at this point in his career but frankly as far as I'm concerned who needs the baggage? I've been around the military all my life, my Dad was an aide for two 4-stars, and rank doesn't impress me.

Some make rank because they're genuinely talented and smart. Some make rank because they're bubbas and suckups. I let the Marine Corps sort that all out - that's their lookout. I don't have time.

Either I like a person or I don't - rank doesn't really signify, except to complicate life.

I defended Mattis because he was being crucified for one remark, taken in isolation and out of context.

And because that one remark, when weighed against his record and the guidance given to his men, was not representative of the man or his philosophy, in my opinion.

NOW EITHER YOU CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH, OR YOU JUST WANT TO BE A SNARKY PERSON WHO CARPS ABOUT APPEARANCES ALL DAY LONG AND DOESN'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS, ONLY WHAT IS SAID.

If that is you, go grab Bill Clinton, stick an M-16 in his hot puffy little hand, and let him defend this great nation. And then bend over and kiss your tuckus goodbye.

Posted by: Bush Ate My Soul... at February 8, 2005 01:07 PM

By the way, that last comment was me.

I blame Bush. He stole my comment - I hate it when he does that...

Posted by: Cassandra at February 8, 2005 01:08 PM

Hate you? Naw, I don't know you well enough to hate you Steve! Mad as hell at you is more apropos. Along with a major portion of disappointment. Even a portion of major disappointment. Take your pick!!!

Kill you? Why? For having an opinion? One that is dead wrong but an opinion nonetheless? Nope! I admit I'd probably smack you around a bit but it'd just be for fun! ;-)

I beg to differ! Vehemently. With every ounce of honor and indignation left in this old ragged out body!

Mattis Cult Six Out! :-o

Posted by: JarheadDad at February 8, 2005 05:22 PM

If loyal Americans wanted polite speaking pussies.. we can contract that out to the French. For the rest... good kids (and bad) from the inner cities to farms... hammered into good Marine Steel.

Posted by: LarryConley at November 2, 2006 12:29 AM

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