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June 26, 2005
Denizens Report
Since I'm not going to write any more today (I'm trying to spend some quality time with the Spousal Unit) I thought I'd introduce you to some of my favorite people: the denizens of Castle Argghhh!!!
There's some great writing out there, most of it rounded up often by the master of the keep, the Castle Armorer. Check out today's post for some great writing. Some others you may not want to miss:
Barb of Righty in a Lefty State catches NPR playing bait-and-switch with a Marine recruiter.
Kat of The Middle Ground thinks the administration is not doing enough to win this war on the home front. I agree - up to a point. I may have more to say on this later. Excellent post.
25 Things you never knew about Sgt B. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who knows all the words to "Broadsword" can't be all bad...
Jack at Random Fate (via Donovan) is not happy that we have admitted to torture:
What happened to "look at each situation to determine the right or wrong of it; do not let others determine your standards..."?Apparently that baseline has disappeared.
This sums up why I call the prison camp at Guantanamo dishonorable:
A nation, or a person, the honor of either is shown by how they treat those whom they have in their power, those with no defense.
The foundation of the United States is in a nation of laws, not of men.
Yet...
We deliberately create a prison at Guantanamo to imprison people beyond the reach of law.
You should read his whole post to get the entire argument. John responds:
Jack at Random Fate points out that the US has admitted to torture. And that he is shamed for the nation. I'm not. As long as it holds true that the torture admitted to was committed not as policy, but violations of same, and that the guilty are sought and punished, I feel no shame at all. I won't say I'm proud, but, I am not ashamed.
I have to see exactly what has occurred here first before commenting further. Also, like John I need to think a bit more too. But his take seems about right to me. It echoes what I have thought all along. If torture and abuse have occurred, that is unequivocably wrong.
There is no denying that fact.
However, it matters greatly whether, and if so to what extent, they occurred with the knowledge, or as a result of official policy or command approval. Furthermore, if we're talking about a case of one corrupt commander exceeding his authority in defiance of policy, that is one thing.
If the policy itself sanctioned torture, that is entirely another.
In our public school systems we have seen rapes, sodomy, even mass murder (Columbine, anyone?). Sometimes these incidents even involved school officials committing or covering up crimes against students. Yet we did not shut the public schools down.
Secondly, a distinction must be made between the record at Guantanamo Bay and other detention facilities. And further between what constitutes torture, and what is merely 'icky' or unpleasant to contemplate. That has singularly failed to be the case so far in this debate. Congress needs to define torture so that a meaningful discussion can take place. My guess is that they will continue to duck the issue so they can go on second-guessing and wagging their fingers at DoD without going on the record as to what the law is on the question of torture.
If they want to outlaw stress positions, they can do so. Pass a law. If they want to mandate that detainees need to be given exactly the same rights as US prisoners.... PASS A LAW. My guess is that they will never do this because it would never fly with their constituents. And if they won't do this, then they need to stop complaining about things that are admittedly somewhat less than humane, but do not fit the textbook definition of torture.
Not the international definition, because Congress very carefully stopped short of agreeing to that in 1994. But OUR definition.
Last time I checked, Congress was tasked with the job of making law. We are supposed to have civilian control of the military - that is what the Founding Fathers intended. If Congress continues to abdicate their responsibilities in this regard and we continue to call the placing of ladies panties on a detainee's head or a lap dance "torture", then true torture will be winked at by perverse individuals who quickly divine that Congress has no interest in regulating their activities.
That asshats like Ted Kennedy are then surprised at this reveals an ignorance of human nature that is truly stunning. Meanwhile the military is left with the job of investigating and punishing infractions, knowing full well that whatever they do will be second-guessed by cowardly and dishonest legislators who make inflammatory statements about pending investigations to further their political careers.
Not that I have an attitude about this issue, mind you...
Posted by Cassandra at June 26, 2005 10:12 AM
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Comments
Cassandra,
I agree with Alan Dersowitz that there needs to be a category called "justifiable torture", just as there is one called "justifiable homicide". That said, 1) you ought to have to justify it in each individual case, and 2) we aought to do it ourselves: no farming it out to "lesser countries without The Law".
Posted by: SDN at June 26, 2005 02:39 PM
That "pass a law" theme sounds familiar. I like I like it, and agree wholeheartedly.
Posted by: KJ at June 27, 2005 10:06 AM