Villainous Company

Oh, Durbin got me when he intoned that the military itself was investigating incidents of Koran abuse.
What a nuanced statement, especially in light of the fact that the detainees themselves were deliberately doing it.

Twit

He is a twit. I happen to think some of the rhetoric aimed at him was overheated, but when you toss verbal Molotov Cocktails, you should be prepared for people to get a tad riled up.

"Guantanamo makes the United States look bad."

And what does the rabid hyberbole of Durbin, Dean and company do?

Oh, you brute! You're just a big bully! :)

Are you questioning their patriotism, sir?

These are courageous men, daring to stand up against the BushReich like that. You remember the hideous tortures they subjected Michael Moore to, after *he* spoke out, don't you??? And now his voice calls out to us from the grave for justice....

Hey,Cohen,Harry Truman once said "If you can't stand the heat,get out of the Kitchen".This is the problem with all you leftist out there.You do all this stuff to others but complain and whine when it comes back to you.Grow Up Man!the problem with you modern democrats is that most of you are nothing but wimps and sissies!Yeah, I said it because its true.Cohen if you would get your sorry ass out of New York and actually get in real America maybe you'll see why most people don't want anything to do with Democrats as you are presently constituted.You know longer are the party of Jefferson and Jackson,that sir is your problem.I also can gurantee if Jackson were alive and he was the CINC instead of Bush,Durbin's ass would be toast, literally.Because unlike the wimpy men we have in society today,Jackson believed in Duels and did many of them.Also Jackson would not have hesitated to many many prominent members of his own party up for a hanging if they committed treason and hurt our military in anyway.I can tell you one thing it would be a bunch of dead Dems right now.So Durbin should pay for what he said,since he is sticking by it.I wonder when the senate will get serious and tell the justice Department to bring up treason charges on this piece of vermin?

As is being widely noted on the internet today, Durbin called for America to present a Uunited front to the world when Clinton attacked Iraq, while he now does everything possible to divide the country. That is what is so despicalble about both Durbin himself, and those like Cohen who rush to hisa defense.

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa...

How many times have I told you not to hold your feelings in like that, woman? It's just not healthy.

Heh... you tell 'em :)

Lisa,
You are going to harsh the liberals' mellow. They live in a rose colored world, you see. The only time the glasses come off is when THEY are not in charge, and when they are, everything is fine.

The problem with Durbin and crowd is as you and Cass have pointed out: The rhetoric. The nuanced lies.
The ability to say that Guantanamo makes America look bad, but HOW is a matter of speculation.

You see, you MIGHT have a case if you are talking about detaining them without a trial, or without an investigation. Well, in this instance, the war on terror and terrorism itself calls for a few things to change.

I would far rather be in US Custody as an 'enemy combatant' than in the clutches of say, oh, let me see...Castro's gulags and labor farms? Or a Turkish jail? Even a Phrench jail would look good by comparison.

You know, I can respect someone who says that Gitmo makes us look bad. That chaining a prisoner to the floor is beneath us or that keeping them awayke for days with bad music is inappropriate. I'll disagree, but I can at least respect that.

What Durbin has done is not say that Gitmo makes us look bad or is contrary to US sensibilities. He has equated a jail cell without air conditioning, something that didn't even exist 100 years ago and something some US citizens still don't have, to mass murder through starvation, forced slave labor, gassing and/or burning.

That I can't respect.

As always, very nice work Cassandra. Nice smackdown.

Here's the most amazing thing to me. These folks are all professional politicians. They have been doing this for years, if not decades, and they cannot take some "back atcha." They go off crying like a little boy with a skinned knee. They are pathetic.

MM, I agree.

You see, when it comes to custody and detainees, I know of one person who even wrote in his blog
"don't get me started on the Brits" about prisoners, etc.

He detailed how they had the same of everything that their POWS (Iraqi) had. The same showers, lack of A/C, indifferent and sporadic mail delivery, etc.
The only difference was WHO was guarding WHOM.

They had to use the same showers, but obviously duh not at the same time. They could at least get hot water (like in Iraq that would be a no brainer). I know about what they had because the blog confirmed what I already knew. How did I?
Let me say I know one or two people that were tasked with building detention areas for the Iraqi POWs during the war. 'nuff said.

Yet again, a post that keeps this blog on the top of my blogroll.

Yes, poor little Dick has become quite the whipping boy. I just feel terrible.

Gee, how bad do you feel, Pile On? You know it is all about feelings and outcome based interrogations.

I suggest we transfer all the prisoners from Gitmo to the Cook County jail. Let Turbin Durbin make friends with them and take care of them. Pay Cook County the going rate for daily prisoner upkeep and forget about them. I'll bet each and everyone of them will beg to be sent back to Gitmo, and after Cook County loses a few guards they will demand they be returned to Gitmo. Seems to be a fair way to set them free from the torture of Gitmo.

"Guantanamo makes the United States look bad."

"And what does the rabid hyberbole of Durbin, Dean and company do?"

Well, it doesn't kill people.

Durbin should never have apologized. Do you agree with torture as a tool of policy?

Just sort of makes you want to reminisce about those old lynching photos seen recently in the NYT and other liberal papers. Why, it wasn't as bad as Stalin, we didn't kill THAT many.

Yes it does, when there are riots in the MEast because of things these idiots say.

Or when hotheads go out and attack our soldiers on the strength of their inflammatory comments. This was just as bad as that Newsweek thing. Can you explain to me why Durbin felt he had to comment on a matter *that was still under investigation*??? He could have waited until it had been proven/disproven and THEN said the same thing, and it would have been impossible to refute.

BUT THE FACT IS, RIGHT NOW WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER WHAT HE SAID REALLY HAPPENED. IT IS STILL ONE PERSON'S WORD. MAYBE TRUE, MAYBE NOT. IN THE CASE OF THE NEWSWEEK STORY, IT TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE.

A Senator who has been on the Senate Select Intel Committee should know better than to issue a public comment on an ongoing investigation. Period.

And no one has died at Gitmo, OTL.

Not one person. *Not one.* And I agree - if he really believes what he said, he should not have apologized.

Do you agree with torture as a tool of policy?

As I said earlier, Durbin wasn't making the statement that a jail cell with the A/C turned off (something some US citizens don't even have) or sleep deprivation through loud music (not uncommon in college dorms) is poor or ill-advised policy that will backfire. He equated it with stuff like this.

There is a huge difference. It is not "telling the truth".

There have been several who died in US custody in Afghanistan, in similar secret detention centers.

Holding people forever without charges, without any legal status whatsoever, whether criminal or POW, for the duration of the "War on Terror", which, like the War on Drugs, will never end, is very like a gulag. And very un-American.

There have been several who died in US custody in Afghanistan, in similar secret detention centers.

Yes, that is true. And it is wrong. Very wrong.

But if you have five prisons, four at which there have been deaths and one at which there have not, IT DOES NOT HELP THE PRISONERS ONE BIT TO CLOSE THE ONE AT WHICH THERE HAVE NOT, now does it? In fact, from all accounts, Gitmo has the BEST record of ALL the detention centers.

Yet that is what the Democrats have been calling for. That will help the situation. Pretty fricking stupid.

It is just as well to be accurate when you are talking about this and avoid hyperbole, which Durbin did not. It is not clear from the statement that some of what he is talking about (obviously not the temperature stuff, but the hair and urinating/defecating) was not self-inflicted. **That has yet to be investigated.** If it turns out it was not self-inflicted (AND IT HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED IN SEVERAL CASES THAT DETAINEES DO THIS KIND OF THING BECAUSE THEY ARE TRAINED TO CLAIM ABUSE) they whoever abused them should be punished severely, and I mean serious jail time.

But you have STILL not addressed my question: why is the Senator commenting publicly on an ongoing investigation? My husband would NEVER do that.

I am uncomfortable with many aspects of this situation. Once we got into this, it was something of a catch-22. I don't like it at all. On the other hand, the alternative to detaining these people, quite frankly, was to have shot them.

And granting them access to our legal system, with all that entails, as you know would be a security nightmare. I do understand why the administration doesn't want to do that. It makes sense as much as I hate it, because in a free society there are people who work within it to destroy it and have no compunction about betraying us, and then you have asshats in our own government just waiting to say "I told you so" when they are the ones who demanded these guys have access to lawyers in the first place.

But it will happen in the end, Al. It's just a matter of time.

Any by the way, it's nice to have you back.

I don't always agree with you (well most of the time I don't agree with you!) but it's nice to have a reasonable voice from the other side of the aisle.