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July 11, 2005

Get A Clue, Ladies' Man...

Every now and then I run across one of these articles written by guys in which some self-appointed "expert" purports to tell perfectly normal, attractive men how they can "make it" with women. Invariably I'm just floored by the idiocy.

The first thing that always pops into my mind is, "Hmmm.... apparently he's had a LOT of experience with rejection"...(in which case, why should anyone listen to him?). Or... are we supposed to take him at his word and assume he's a real "pro" with the ladies? Wherever does he find the time to write articles on demystifying rejection? And how would he know?

Does it ever occur to any of these geniuses to ... gee, I dunno... ask a woman?

This guy wants to tell you why the woman you approached just rejected you. I can't begin to speak for all women, but he seemed way off-base to me. Here's one (admittedly older) woman's reaction to his advice. Feel free to add your own in the comments section:

1- She's a bitch Contemporary society is awash in rude, self-centered, man-hating Sex and the City clones who care only about themselves and have absolutely no conscience about men's feelings (or the feelings of other women, for that matter). Their attitude is: I have a million-dollar sexual price tag and any man is going to have to bow and scrape and pay dearly to gain access to it. These are the women who will try to emasculate you when you ask them out (if you don't have something they can sex-ploit), who get off on making men squirm, and who flagrantly abuse their sexual power.

Survey says.... XXXXXX. Number one answer: you made her feel like a cheap piece of beef on display at the local Piggly Wiggly.

This is ridiculous. I used to hate going to bars because I didn't like turning down even the most obnoxious guys - no one likes trying to come up with nice ways to say, "I'm not interested". Most women don't enjoy hurting other people's feelings, but when a guy makes it obvious he has no interest in her other than a one-night stand, any compunction she might have about embarrassing him falls by the wayside pretty quickly. After all, he's just insulted her by treating her with a complete lack of respect. If you're not interested in getting to know her as a person before you jump into the sack with her, perhaps you shouldn't be surprised if she writes you off. Fair's fair - you weren't wasting any time. Why should she?

2- You don't have the goods Since money is the No. 1 consideration a woman weighs when choosing which men to date, if you don't have it or don't look like you have it, then you're just not going to be on the top of her list. Until we refuse to pay for female attention, women are going to keep getting away with this kind of sex-tortion.

Wow. Got bitterness? When I was dating I always offered to share expenses. And I can't remember even considering money when I got married, let alone when I was dating. My idea of a perfect date was walking along the beach on a summer night, or just going somewhere and listening to music and talking. It didn't have to be expensive. Women like attention: little things like noticing her perfume, her hair, or that new dress she bought just for you. Consideration goes a long, long way with most ladies.

3- She's taken

Entirely possible, but as the man points out that should be obvious from the get-go.

4- She's a player In other words, she's a serial flirter. A lot of married women or women with low self-esteem fall into this category -- they constantly need to be assured that they're still attractive to men, and so will ooze up to any guy who comes close just to get his reaction. They have no interest in dating you -- just in getting you turned on and then walking away. This is another flagrant abuse of female sexual power over men.

Ummm...what were you doing flirting with a married woman? Unless of course she wasn't wearing a wedding ring...

5- She's a psycho A lot of women out there have chosen "bad boys" or have, for psychological reasons, been involved in disastrous relationships and now blame men for all the problems of their own making. Some of them have dropped out of the dating pool altogether or have been repeatedly abandoned by men because of their chaotic behavior. They will reject you just because you're one of "them."

There are a few women like this, but far fewer than men like to make out. Most women like this are dumb enough to keep dating the wrong men over and over. If she's so dumb that she's going to turn down a nice guy and keep dating bums, good riddance. You should be glad she turned you down - that's a train wreck waiting to happen.

6- You've got the wrong moves If you "Hey, baby" her while snaking an unctuous arm around her shoulders, leer at her or keep calling her when she's clearly not interested, then you're just a creepy pest, and you'll have about as much chance of sleeping with her as a eunuch does.

Yep.

7- Bad timing If a woman turns you down, you may have run head-on into some bizarre phase of her monthly cycle in which all men are bad, or she's feeling unattractive, or any of a thousand other hormone-based reactions to the dating world. You could run into her a couple of days from now and get a complete green light.

Wrong. This is what she tells you when she's not interested and she's trying to let you down easy.

8- She's been hurt Any time you hear, "I'm taking a break from dating," or, "I need some time to get my life together," when you ask a woman out, it usually means that she's just come out of a bad relationship and is not yet interested in jumping into a new one. With this sort of damaged woman, it's best to aim for friendship or wait a while for her to straighten herself out before trying again.

Amazing - sometimes people mean what they say.

9- You're a geek In other words, you have no sexual confidence whatsoever and you melt like ice cream in July whenever she gets within 10 feet of you. You don't have to be James Bond, but if you can't even get a sentence out around her without stammering, then there's no way she's going to accept a date with you. You will be instantly relegated to "friend" status, if that.

Oh for Pete's sake - this is a total male myth. "Sexual confidence" is overrated as far as women are concerned. I'll tell you a secret: you're bigger and stronger than we are. We find that sexy. And what most women want, most is a relationship.

And sometimes, having a guy melt like an ice cream cone in July is the hottest thing a woman can imagine - she can't ask for a more sincere tribute. So don't slink away - have the guts to stick around for a moment and see if she responds. She might be embarrassed or confused for a second (she's human too, you know). And she might surprise you.

If she likes you as a person and finds you reasonably attractive, she can and will teach you anything she wants you to know in the boudoir. So if you're not feeling "confident", get to know her really well and let nature take its course. The confidence thing will work itself out.

10- She's just not attracted to you Simple as that. It happens and there's nothing you can do about it. It's best to just pick up the pieces and move on.

Absolutely. And it may have nothing to do with you, or your attractiveness. We all have little ideals in our heads, and just because you don't match up with her fantasy man doesn't mean you aren't someone else's. Move one - somewhere there's a woman who's dreaming of someone just like you.

Posted by Cassandra at July 11, 2005 09:49 AM

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Comments

#11 Buy a tooth brush and use it.

Posted by: spd_rdr at July 11, 2005 12:32 PM

#12 You just threw up on her new shoes.

Posted by: spd_rdr at July 11, 2005 12:32 PM

Wow! Where do I start?

I may be different than other women (I have been told that I am), but the thing that makes a man attractive to me is BRAINS, being unafraid of a woman with brains, and honesty. I made my mistakes early on, of trying not to look smarter than my date, and in some cases, this was very difficult. (I have bad knees and can’t drag my knuckles on the ground.)

I remember even when I was in 6th grade, and “The Wild Wild West” was popular on TV. Of course, I first responded to Eye Candy James West, but over time, I began to prefer I Can Think My Way Out Of A Paper Bag And Occasionally I Even Get The Girl Artemus Gordon. When asked long ago who my favorite male movie star was, (Robert Redford?) I had to reply Jimmy Stewart. (Huh?) Yeah, that honesty thing again. And heck! Look at Robert Redford now! He’s not aging well at all. If you chose him for his looks, you should have kept the receipt. If a guy doesn’t look like a poster child for male handsomeness, he might develop a personality. He might have something to say. He might think!

I absolutely love a discussion on topics of importance. I remember once a guy was trying out all his “bar lines” on me – Hey, baby, what’s your sign? If I told you have a beautiful body would you hold it against me? Did you know I can lick my eyebrows? (GAD!! Did that one EVER work?)

One day he said “I'd like to get to know you.” I was speechless! It was simply a true statement. I like truth in packaging.

Regarding being a geek – I remember an article in Readers Digest about marrying a geek. The author spoke of high school football stars who had not held up well by the 10th reunion. Her husband, a former wearer of a pocket protector and taped glasses, stood by her side. As she said, more fashionable eyewear can be purchased, and the pocket protector can be left at home. And when that is done, there is still something interesting inside.

Posted by: MathMom at July 11, 2005 12:35 PM

Well, well, well. I have two things to say. One, I agree, wholeheartedly, with MathMom! I too married a man who wasn't part of the, "in crowd." He is a great provider, a wonderful father, he loves me dearly, and keeps me happy in every way. There have been some rough spots in nearly 25 years of marriage, but I thank God every day for how blessed I am to be married to this man. I haven't seen anything over the years to change my way of thinking about the shallowness of the, "beautiful people." No offense to beautiful people who are NOT shallow!

Second, I am so grateful not to have to be part of the, "dating," scene. Back in the late 70's, when I was dating, I made it a practice not to date any guy that had hair longer than my own. In these days of pink hair, piercings and tattoos, I don't know what I would do! Ye gods!

Posted by: JannyMae at July 11, 2005 01:03 PM

#13: She is still bitter about the way you sexually used her two sisters, who you dated at the same time, and she remembers when you took them on consecutive nights to that S&M Couple Swapping club, before breaking up with them while they were on the rack you convinced them to buy for their basement. And for some reason she thinks you are going to do the same to her.

Posted by: Lonely Man at July 11, 2005 01:09 PM

Ditto.

I have to admit that being married to someone who looks like a cross between George Clooney and Sean Connery has been fun. I got the beefcake with the personality.

He has scrubbed floors, changed diapers, walked the floors at night with crabby babies, helped with homework, did yard work, worked on cars and provided a good living for us all.

And after 20 years, he tells me I still curl his toes with longing.

Heh.

Posted by: Cricket at July 11, 2005 01:11 PM

spd, an emphasis on the basics is never a bad idea :)

I've never understood why guys use clever pickup lines, MathMom. I think it's because they are competitive. I used to think maybe it was because they admire skill in any endeavor and assumed that women think the same way they do.

I've often heard male friends say that women like smooth men, but I don't know a single woman who really does. They do fall for pretty boys, but men fall for gorgeous women too - that's just biology, not a function of smoothness. All other things being equal, it's better just to be yourself. I used to have a male friend who was incredibly good-looking and also a bit of a player. I liked him a lot, but always found him the most charming when he was relaxed and would just be himself.

I hated it when he started doing the Ladies Man thing - he was very good at it, but it was a distraction from what he really had to offer as a person - a way of keeping people at a distance - and I didn't much care for it.


Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 01:13 PM

#14 She remembers all the lies you told her last night...but you don't even remember last night.

Posted by: spd_rdr at July 11, 2005 01:34 PM

#27 He ruins the second perfectly good keyboard in a one-week period.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 01:43 PM

#18: She is turned off by the fact that before asking her out, you followed her home off the bus, stood out on the street staring at her window, followed her the next day to work, and then called her at work 17 times a day to hear her voice. In other words, she is intiminated by a real go-getter man. She is probably too timid for you anyway.

#19: She doesn't like the fact that you are asking her out in violation of the protective order.

Posted by: Lonely Man at July 11, 2005 02:02 PM

Lonely Man, you sound like that guy who used to call me at work every night at 11:30 pm.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 02:04 PM

As you might imagine, I get questions on this topic all the time. I tell people, there is no secret, just be yourself. If you put on an act eventually you will be found out and it isn't much of a foundation for a relationship. You want someone to like you for who you are anyway.

Of course that advice works better for some of us than others.

Posted by: Pile On at July 11, 2005 02:22 PM

#20 Leave handcuffs out of the conversation until 2nd date.

Posted by: spd_rdr at July 11, 2005 02:25 PM

If you put on an act eventually you will be found out and it isn't much of a foundation for a relationship. You want someone to like you for who you are anyway.

Of course that advice works better for some of us than others.

And if it doesn't, there are always handcuffs...

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 03:23 PM

I prefer scarfs. They are non-bruising.

Posted by: Lonely Man at July 11, 2005 04:33 PM

Silk ties work well, too.

Posted by: portia at July 11, 2005 04:39 PM

At least that's what I'm told....

Posted by: portia at July 11, 2005 04:40 PM

Well ties never do press out the same way, afterwards :)

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 04:44 PM

I have a feeling Lonely Man may think it a small price to pay.

Posted by: portia at July 11, 2005 04:50 PM

Yes, well what's an Hermes tie or two, compared to another evening watching Caged Heat? :)

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 04:53 PM

Silk stockings!
#21. You said "Hi pork chop."

Posted by: spd_rdr at July 11, 2005 05:23 PM

Barbarian! They lose their elasticity :)

This is why we have scarf boxes.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 05:31 PM

#22: Your first few minutes of conversation includes, "will you take a deep breath from this hankerchief?"

#23: "Did you know that you can develop an immunity to Iocaine powder? Can I buy you a drink?"

#24: I also know this doesn't work: "I am so freaking lonely. Take me home with you tonight, and you will never get rid of me without a court order."

Posted by: Lonely Man at July 11, 2005 06:13 PM

Th' expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjur'd, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Enjoy'd no sooner, but despised straight;
Past reason hunted; and no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallow'd bait,
On purpose laid to make the taker mad:
Mad in pursuit, and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof,--and prov'd, a very woe;
Before, a joy propos'd; behind, a dream:
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
Bud Light?

Posted by: spd rdr at July 11, 2005 08:31 PM

Tease... :)

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 08:36 PM

That Pile On guy must be something. I never got anywhere just being myself.

Posted by: Lonely Man at July 11, 2005 09:30 PM

#23: "Did you know that you can develop an immunity to Iocaine powder? Can I buy you a drink?"
Posted by: Lonely Man at July 11, 2005 06:13 PM

Lonely Man is the Dreaded Pirate Roberts?!

Posted by: camojack at July 11, 2005 09:47 PM

Test

Posted by: Trey at July 11, 2005 10:00 PM

Way to open 'er up, Trey.
She'll be falling all over you in minutes.
(insert stupid happy-face thingy here)

Posted by: spd rdr at July 11, 2005 10:33 PM

She could also be a Lesbianese from the Isle of Lezbia.
That`s a common ego restorer. The girl doesn`t respond to your attentions so she MUST be a lesbian.
The opposite also works for the girls.

I don`t know what kind of girls he met or what kind of guys you know but in both cases some of those charges have merit and some don`t.

People are people and as such they follow social circles that they are familiar with and comfortable in.

Those who are used to socializing with the more refined, educated and classier crowd are more often just at home with the "Joe Six Pack" crowd.

While the Joe Six Pack Crowd often have a hard time feeling accepted in a more refined crowd.
It`s easier to step down than up.

This guy just doesn`t get it and I`m thinking that he`s hitting on girls that are WAY out of his league. That`s obvious from the resentment peppered throughout his post.
But, in the Grand Scheme of things he`s also got some good points.

Regardless of whether he`s a loser or not, some girls ARE like that. It seems he just happened to meet them all.

Posted by: Joatmoaf at July 11, 2005 10:40 PM

You're probably right joat. I know some women are clueless jerks too. And to be honest, if you're in a crowd where the guys act obnoxious, the women will respond that way too, so it's kind of a vicious cycle I suppose. I guess I just wasn't brought up to treat anyone that way - the worst I would do if someone was obnoxious was ignore him and hope he'd get bored and go away. I never saw the point in belittling anyone.

I can remember a few girls being pretty rude to the sailors in bars when I was in high school. But then they were sometimes pretty rude to us too. But I always found that even the ones who started off being obnoxious would stop right away if you were nice back to them.

I wasn't saying he was a loser - it just seemed like he was awfully hostile. Making the #1 reason a woman rejects you, that she is a bitch says an awful lot about a person, don't you think?

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 10:51 PM

#24 Who's got car keys?

Posted by: spd rdr at July 11, 2005 11:06 PM

Whose got *hic* kar ceys??

Posted by: spd rdr at July 11, 2005 11:08 PM

I hope you have your running shoes on tonight mr rdr...

Posted by: Cassandra at July 11, 2005 11:08 PM

S'hapennin', Momma? Now you gotsta dig this groove I be layin on you, baby. Sistahs don' want no jive-talkin' bruthah all up in they face. A bruthah gotsta have some flava to his game, but if he wants to gits wit the foxy ladies, den dey needs to know he can bring the funk AND keep it real. You dig? Right on. Solid.

-- This jive moment has been brought to you by the Cultural Sensitivity division of NPR, where our motto is "Diversifying white america one funktastic stereotype at a time, baby".

Posted by: a former european at July 12, 2005 07:31 AM

Once, a long time ago in a health food store far far away on the Left Coast, Yours Truly was asked by an honest EST type of guy if she wanted to go to bed with him.

Even now, the memory brings back the horror of the early 1980s, before Time said the sexual revolution was over.

I laugh myself sick at the recollection because of the scenario.

He pulled up in his sports car, shed his shirt and adjusted his gold chain, fluffed his hair and
came in in nothing but a pair of shorts and some sandals and aforementioned chain.

I was attired in a longsleeved silk blouse, a mid calf length skirt and huarches.

My first reaction (mentally) was "He is oogie."
But seeing as how he had primped and gone to the trouble to show me his pecs and manly bonafides,
I told him gently and kindly that I was flattered by his offer but that I was engaged. He then had the gall to tell me that MY committment to my future husband didn't matter, since it was only pleasure that he wanted to share...

At that point I pulled out the verbal grenade launcher.

Oh, what was I doing in the health food store? I worked there.

As to the clueless women, my mom always said that a man will be a gentleman as long as I behaved like a lady.

Truer words...

I think women do have a civilizing effect on men, and in the realm of spd's comments and joat's, he was out of his league. There is also a certain type of selfishness that drives that kind of behavior in either gender.

I have to adjust my petticoat. It seems to have lost it's flounce.

Posted by: Cricket at July 12, 2005 12:02 PM

Sounds like he's right up there with the lovely sailors who I used to have to sell men's magazines to when I was twenty years old and working at the Navy Exchange in Norfolk.

I'll never forget having to ask one of them (in a large group) please to close the issue of Hustler he was ostentatiously leafing through at my register whilst I was ringing up the rest of his purchase. It was open on the counter right in front of me and his buddies were leering over his shoulder at it.

I turned a rather bright shade of pink and politely reminded him of the store brown wrapper policy, not to mention the fact that there were women and young children behind him in line.

He eyed my 7-months' pregnant belly, slid his eyes up and down my torso very slowly, then said, "Well there shouldn't be anything in here YOU haven't seen before Honey" before returning to his reading.

I reached over and took the magazine and stapled it into the bag I had just filled. My face was so hot I felt like I was in an oven, but somehow I kept my voice from shaking as I smiled, handed him the rest of his bags, and told him to have a nice day.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 12, 2005 12:12 PM

WHAT A PIG!

Sorry for the outburst, but it is men like that that don't need to add to the gene pool.

And that was totally creepy.

I dislike skin magazines for a LOT of reasons. Since this isn't the time or place for a full rant
on that, I have to admit that here the men have been gently oinky,

Let's face it, an appreciation of a pretty face and form is a normal male response. I don't think I could like a man who can't see beauty in the feminine!

However, porn is just that.

Okay, rant mode off, and getting back to solving the 7x7 matrix in Harry Potter.

Yes, I know it is fluffy stuff, but every now and then something comes along that tickles my fancy.

I also picked up a book of O. Henry stories last night and really enjoyed them.

Posted by: Cricket at July 12, 2005 01:12 PM

It's not easy to scare me. I've spent an awful lot of time alone, and several times had to deal with guys harassing or calling me while my husband was deployed - that sort of thing happens when you're working or out running errands in a military town and there are idle people hanging about with nothing better to do. I always just was careful to lock doors or not drive directly home and not talk to people I didn't know.

But for some reason I have never been able to think of that guy without a shudder. My Dad and my husband always get after me for being overconfident and too trusting and there's probably some justification for that - I have a hard time seeing the bad in people sometimes.

I used to walk to and from work, and I think that was the first time I ever didn't feel safe. I don't know - maybe it was because I was pregnant. Yuck.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 12, 2005 01:31 PM

I think we as humans are trusting to a certain extent and do want to see the good in others. But how can you see the good in someone who is blatantly
a jerk and doesn't restrain himself or has no sense of who he/she is addressing? Who just doesn't care?

How this ties in with the ladies' man is this: I think of Pile as a gentleman. THAT is a true ladies' man. One who likes and respects women. I am aware that spd and KJ and the other 'knaves' that post here are also gentlemen and while they are not above teasing, they still don't go blow it.

The ladies' man of the stupid pick up lines and picking up bar flies as described in your post
is in it for selfish reasons.

He wants quality, he will have to grow up.

Otherwise he will be lonely. And the gene pool is better for it.

Posted by: Cricket at July 12, 2005 05:01 PM

This is going to sound really sappy and dumb. I know it.

It's just that I've seen how often people do foolish or cruel things out of fear. I think fear is the most dangerous emotion there is.

Fear of being rejected, or fear of being alone. And then when someone is just kind to them, the barriers come down and they remember how to be kind. It's like they're afraid to be vulnerable.

Fear makes people put up walls around themselves, and then they tell themselves it's OK to treat others badly, or OK to return the kind of treatment they've received at the hands of people who were unkind to them, even though they know it's wrong.

Life beats some people down, and they give in to fear, and they do things they shouldn't. It's no excuse, really.

But I guess I can understand how it happens and feel sorry. No one wants to get hurt.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 12, 2005 05:11 PM

For the record, one of my greatest qualities when I was courting the Mrs. KJ was my politeness. You know, holding open doors and pulling out chairs and that crap. Some college chicks really dig that stuff.

Do that first. It softens them up for the next move:-P

Posted by: KJ at July 13, 2005 11:57 AM

I a man that relates well to women. I've had many female friends even if I'm not gay, and by friend I really mean friend and not F*** friend.

I've never been married but I've never cheated on a girlfriend ever.
I've had one one night stand in my whole life and it was in 1984, I was single and I caught gonorhea.
I believe the best sex you can have is with a person you really know and care about.

When people who know me describe me the first thing that they will say is that I am nice, and I AM nice, maybe even too nice ( but that's another story ).

But still, and I have to be brutally honest here, when a woman automatically and immediately rejects me, ignores me or even says something mean just because she is convinced I must be a jerk trying to sleep with her ( and by the way, looks are not the problem here, I'm no Brad Pitt but I'm good looking, and even though that is not how I feel about it, many women have told me I am, and when they do I usually blush and look at my shoes, yes I'm that shy... ) I find the woman's reaction frankly very insulting, and the word bitch comes to mind.

Posted by: Friend of USA [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 13, 2005 02:17 PM

Friend of USA, while I can see your point of view, sort of, I wonder if you might consider that the woman has just had a whole parade of men that she has had to (try to) tactfully turn down? I will grant you that some women are just bitches, but I'd say most are not deliberately trying to be bitchy in that situation. Then again, I've never been a guy approaching a woman.

I have been a woman, however, approached on more than one occasion, when I was in my teens and twenties, by black boys/men who insisted that if I didn't agree to sleep with them, it proved I was, "prejudiced." Try and deal with that without being considered a, "bitch."

Posted by: JannyMae at July 14, 2005 01:47 PM

FofUSA, I erased a comment yesterday because I realized I was pissed and I didn't want you to take it personally.

I am 46 years old - hardly a sex object - and I cannot go out to a bar with my friends and have a beer when my husband is deployed because I happen to love and respect him and I will not take the risk that someone will report to him that they saw me talking with a man. Yeah, I joke around a lot, but I am very circumspect in my personal behavior. You only have one reputation, and when it is lost, it is lost. I have gone out when he is home, but that is another matter - he knows about it.

I don't dress provocatively, I don't make eye contact with strange men, and I don't sit at the bar. It doesn't matter. Men drop by your table, they send drinks over, they stop by and ask you to dance.

What kind of man tries to pick up a woman with a wedding ring on? Why assume a woman in a bar with other women is there to be picked up? It annoys me no end that I cannot even go out, sometimes for AN ENTIRE YEAR if my husband is deployed, for fear that some rumor will get back to my spouse.

Simply because I am female.

He has no such constraint.

Yep. You're goddamned right I'm pissed. And if some women may sometimes seem to have an "attitude" when they turn a man down, this may be why - some guys have the attitude that you don't mean it when you're nice. I have never EVER been rude to a guy. But I have to say I really, really resent the double standard.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 14, 2005 02:40 PM

Bitch! he-he-he!

Geez Cass, tell us how you really feel! Sheesh! Poor guy was just stating a fact. You crucified him for something that bothers you and not in his own scenario. I didn't see any mention of a wedding band in his comment. Ouch!

You need to hook up with The Lovely Bride. Y'all think a lot alike. She too would refuse to go out when I was at sea. I trust her wholeheartedly and always have so it would be no concern to me if she wanted a night out but she respects our marriage enough to not even give the APPEARANCE of impropriety. Now that is just dead sexy! And you wonder why I fall more in love with her every minute we are together! I would literally lay down my life for her at the drop of a hat!

I'm no expert on the dating thing. I dated a little in high school and in college until I met TLB. Our first date was a hike up the Appalachain Trail in the Linville Gorge area of NC. We spent the weekend free climbing and hiking. Now THAT is a woman! heh! I never had much use for the societal young ladies that were constantly paraded before me simply because I don't need accessories. I also didn't like the bar scene but loved to dance. I always found it strange that women would take offense if you danced together and then wanted to dance with someone else. I wasn't trolling or looking for a life partner, I just liked to dance! My best friend's twin sister and I used to compete in some dancing contests way back when and I wasn't trying to offend the feminine sensibilites in the least. But somehow I did by refusing to make it into something I wasn't looking for. I can define the word bitch if you'd like!

BTW, I met TLB in a bowling alley. Introduced by her own Mom and Dad who happened to be on my bowling team at the time. She had just gotten back from camping out at Road Atlanta for three days and looked like it. I fell in love on the spot! And she really doesn't dance that well but I have danced with no one else, except my own daughter, since that time. I found my life partner to walk BESIDE me while try as I might to put on a pedestal refuses to be put there. Hopefully my children have learned from watching their parents and understand that marriage is a 50/50 proposition. Something that requires commitment and loyalty from two people. If I pass on tomorrow that is the one thing I hope I leave behind. It is the most important lesson of life. I truly believe you cannot find true happiness until you learn to share your trust and respect with your partner. The bad times simply make you stronger when you face them together. You cannot truly be together unless you understand and admire each other for who you are!

I admire your dedication to your marriage. It is as much to yourself as it is to the Big Unit and I understand that. I'm quite sure he does as well. If there is one drawback that we of the male gender have it is usually the innate ability not to convey those feelings into words which generally annoys you of the female type. But rest assured we know, understand, and are eternally grateful for it! Literally!

As far as dating goes, I'd really suck at it today. I watch my kids go through it and it is amazing the hoops they jump through for things I used to just simply take for granted. I especially worry about our shy one which is probably why I feel sympathy for FofA. I've seen him treated the exact same way so many times it actually becomes a physical hurt for me as his dad. Hell, I even get annoyed at the little trollops for destroying the boy simply because they can. They may have some female wile thing going on but at that particular place in time the word bitch is apropos! The cruelty that can be shown by your gender at times is amazing and FofA was speaking honestly! Not all young men are like my two other boys you know. Some are like him and simply get tongue tied when around the "fairer" sex. He has a lot to give a young woman one day and she'll find that out. If he ever gets to put the flames out from being shot down so cold and mercilessly one of these days. A very lucky girl will find out what love, devotion, protection, and solid providing will feel like. I look forward to the day!

Posted by: JarheadDad at July 14, 2005 04:09 PM

JHD, I wasn't aiming that at FofUSA - I said that straight off the bat. That's why I didn't comment yesterday.

I dated a lot, but didn't date more than one guy at a time because it bothered me to hurt people's feelings. I never liked having guys pursue me, so I let them know right away whether I was interested or not: if not, I tried to let them down easily. I don't like playing games.

I think only insecure, immature girls will shoot a guy down - just like only insecure, immature guys use girls. There's no reason to lead a man on if you're not interested, or hurt him unnecessarily.

Posted by: Cassandra at July 14, 2005 04:55 PM

Things just seem to have changed nowadays Cass. Believe it or not I can still remember working up the courage to make that phone call to a little girl to ask her out to the movies. Now the girl is more apt to call and frankly I don't think I like that. Guess I'll always be old fashioned!

I was talking about this very thing with Dink the other day. To say I was amazed by the aggressiveness of young girls today would be an understatement. But on the flip side I also see the agressiveness in boys like College Boy (who has net his match btw! heh! I love it!).

Whatever happened to taking it slow and enjoying each other? What's the rush? I don't remember it being a game where I was competing but I have always been really dense when it comes to your gender. TLB tells me that all the time! Especially in regard to proper attire for going out or not putting up for a minute with some young stud blowing his horn in my driveway expacting my daughter to magically appear. heh!

Posted by: JarheadDad at July 14, 2005 05:08 PM

Janny and Cass, shouldn't a woman be able to tell the difference between those jerks who put you in uncomfortable situations and a decent, polite guy, that actually wants to have a conversation ?

...

JarheadDad, I was like your son, and the funny thing ( well, really not funny at the time ) is that those girls that were cruel to me eventually dated the jerks who were just adding notches to their bed posts. And then the girls turned into women and still made the same poor choices...

Isn't that weird; Mean to the nice guy, and throwing themselves in the arms of the jerks...

Women that fall for men with cheap rehearsed lines; I guess they deserve each other!

...

Anyway I've been out of the " dating scene " for years now and I'm glad.
I'm now with a wonderful and beautiful woman
( she will be 44 next week, but most people think she looks not a day over 30... Guess I got my revenge? ) that never saw my shyness or lack of assertiveness as a flaw.

...

I would think that for every woman who has had bad experience with jerks, there is a man who's had bad experience with bitches.

Posted by: Friend of USA [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 15, 2005 12:13 AM

I joined the bash men parade, but I really think we need to quit giving women so much damn credit here for just reacting to bad history or always being right. I'll back up Friend of USA. Sure, we can make fun of men for being jerks, but this is not the war on terror. Men aren't clearly the bad terrorists. This is a fair fight, and women have their war crimes every damn bit as much as men do. We can't all be "ourselves" ala Pile On, but we can't all be "I won't be seen talking to a man in a bar" Cass either. Our pure female readers with their idiosyncratic lifestyles of purity do not change that. We aren't talking about "you" then. But we are talking about your girlfriends. Girlfriend.

Posted by: KJ [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 15, 2005 03:31 PM

Thanks for backing me up KJ.

I guess I should have just said that it's not the fact that a woman is rejecting a man's attention that makes her a you know what, it's the way she does it when the man is being respectful that makes her a you know what.

If the man is acting like an a**-hole, then Ladies; Fire away!

Posted by: Friend of USA [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 16, 2005 12:06 AM

#4 She's a player In other words, she's a serial flirter. A lot of married women or women with low self-esteem fall into this category -- they constantly need to be assured that they're still attractive to men, and so will ooze up to any guy who comes close just to get his reaction.

Actually that describes a lot of married middle aged men I know, they won't cheat on their wives, but it makes them feel better if they can get a reaction out of another woman by flirting.

5- She's a psycho A lot of women out there have chosen "bad boys" or have, for psychological reasons, been involved in disastrous relationships and now blame men for all the problems of their own making.

Hmmm, this seems to describe a lot of woman I knew when I was in my twenties and very early thirties (and the woman were as well), however for the most part woman get over the bad boy phase and look for someone like me!!! ;-) Sorry women, I'm taken!


Posted by: Frodo at July 19, 2005 02:09 AM

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