March 11, 2009
The Austin American-Statesman has fun with numbers:
An editorial in the Austin American-Statesman contains an especially silly rendition of an antiwar trope:More than 4,100 U.S. troops have died in Iraq since Bush ordered the invasion six years ago this month. By comparison, the entire Civil War was fought in four years, the U.S. involvement in World War I lasted less than two years, and the United States and its allies crushed both the Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany in just under four years.
Also by comparison, according to the Information Please Almanac, 364,511 Union troops (and at least 133,821 Confederates) died during the Civil War, 116,156 American troops perished in World War I, and 405,399 met their end during World War II.
Apparently the AAS is unhappy that the casualties have been coming so slowly in Iraq.
As I've observed far too many times to count, right down the road from Villa Cassandranita is Sharpsburg, MD - home to the battlefield where Antietam was fought. During a single day of fighting:
The Union had 12,401 casualties with 2,108 dead.
Confederate casualties were 10,318 with 1,546 dead.
This represented 25% of the Federal force and 31% of the Confederate force. More Americans died on September 17, 1862, than on any other day in the nation's military history.
Of course, had it been possible, the Austin American-Statesman would have been there with a stopwatch and an abacus. On the bright side, now they'll be able to photograph returning coffins so they can at last reveal the "hidden" cost of war.
Posted by Cassandra at March 11, 2009 05:00 PM
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Austin is a very liberal town. My parents finally stopped taking the daily paper, but they still pick up the Sunday edition... I would not be upset to get a teaching position that would take me away from this town...
Posted by: Miss Ladybug at March 11, 2009 05:12 PM
How come we don't hear much about the number of people killed on our nations highways every year. A quick search brings up the following;
2005 - 43,510 killed
2006 - 42,642 killed
2006 - 4810 motorcyclists killed
I think I would be safer in Iraq!
Posted by: vet66 at March 11, 2009 06:00 PM
I think I would be safer in Iraq!
Hah -- you'd be safer in Iraq than in Our Nation's Capitol. The unsafe part of being over here is a bit more spectacular, though.
Posted by: BillT at March 11, 2009 07:50 PM
Also, in saying things about the length of wars, the AAS seems to be saying that the [Saddam's] Iraq war has lasted an unconscionably long time. No mention of troops patrolling various borders in Europe (eg West_East German) for decades, or still doing so in Korea - which, after all, is still technically an actual war (OK, a UN Police Action), with a cease-fire but not a peace treaty.
Posted by: teqjack at March 11, 2009 07:51 PM
> than on any other day in the nation's military history
And there were several other battles in the Civil War which rank just slightly below that. One of the battles in Tennessee had similarly insane numbers.
The odd thing is, on the whole, wars, while involving more and more people, and deadlier and deadlier weapons, have been getting less and less deadly on a per-capita involved basis since the Civil War for the USA, and WWI for most of Europe.
Posted by: Obloodyhell at March 11, 2009 11:27 PM
> No mention of troops patrolling various borders in Europe (eg West_East German) for decades, or still doing so in Korea - which, after all, is still technically an actual war (OK, a UN Police Action), with a cease-fire but not a peace treaty.
More critically, in the sense of "war's end", this war ended, what, six months after the invasion? The "police action" which has followed is what has been going on since then in Iraq, and the timeframes you mention are more correctly applicable to the equivalents for WWII -- official endings, per Wiki --
Dates for the end of the occupation of:
Japan: September 8, 1951 (San Francisco Treaty
Germany: May 5, 1955 ( Deutschlandvertrag (treaty)
Austria: May 15, 1955 (Austrian State Treaty (yes, Austria was partitioned, too!)
So, gee, I guess our being in Iraq isn't quite such a long time after all, huh?
But hey, misrepresenting FACTS, what's that to a bunch of libtard journalists? It's just what they do...
Posted by: Obloodyhell at March 11, 2009 11:38 PM
Oh, and, P.S.:
How long did the Reconstriction go on?
How long before all occupation of the Weimar Republic ended?
Let's not think that such occupations don't go with many such wars.
Posted by: Obloodyhell at March 11, 2009 11:45 PM
The American Civil War provided us (via telegraph) the first glimmerings of near-instant news from the front, and the complementary attempts to manage battlefields from Washington and Richmond. It is unsettling to imagine the course of America's history if there had been television and modern journalists at Antietam -- or Normandy.
Posted by: Robert W. Franson at March 12, 2009 03:09 AM
Poor, poor Austin, TX. Used to be such a great place and then....all those left coast companies infiltrated, bringing their cretinous herd of malcontents and ne'er do wells to infest the hearts, minds and souls of good Texans.
I was there last week - and I have to go back next week - to witness the spectacle of diaper wearing wannabe Texans whining and crying about how life is so unfair to the unwashed masses while they sip their Shiner Bock and eat their arugula and caviar. Occasionally they get lost and associate with "the little people" at Rudy's BBQ, or eat "real" "mescan" food at Chuy's....
Most would not know the business end of a horse until you pointed it out as the input end and output end....ignorant dolts.
Mind you, I was born in Alaska, but I got to Texas just as quickly as I could. I think I was inspired by John Wayne's "Flaca" speech (look it up in you tube.)
Posted by: Kbob in Katy at March 12, 2009 07:57 AM
I think the cretins and unwashed masses might just be the future of the Republican party.
Food for thought!
Note to BillT; remember the opening line in the old tv series Hill Street Blues?
"Hey...let's be careful out there!"
Your wit and clarity is appreciated.
Posted by: vet66 at March 12, 2009 10:07 AM
They might be the future, but only after being beaten into submission and branded. Or maybe just frontal lobotomies.
OT - vet66? Signficance? CV/CVA66 crewmwber?
Posted by: kbob in Katy at March 12, 2009 04:42 PM
I rode CV(A)-66 from early '73 through mid '77 as a black shoe Ingahneering type supporting the aviators. Our main shop was the first compartment forward of the passage that ran under the forward most part of the angle deck, below the flight deck, just off the port catwalk. Hence the angle deck mention.
The compartment across the passage from us was typically occupied by aviation ordinance folk while the good old America was underway. 'Twas my final duty station kbob.
Apologies for spinning up the way back moocheen folks.
Posted by: bt_have-abacus-will-travel_hun at March 13, 2009 03:53 PM
"Hey...let's be careful out there!"
"Careful" is my middle name.
If KtLW ever found out what the Naqshabandi are offering to anybody who makes me the star of a jihadi video, she'd up bump my insurance policy two-fold.
Posted by: BillT at March 13, 2009 04:43 PM
vet66, so that would be like the C&E Shop? I worked there as an EM3 myself in 73 and 74 (med cruise), then went down to #2 switchboard.
We likely know each other, wouldn't you say?
Posted by: CW4 at March 13, 2009 05:20 PM
Small world indeed Kevin!
Yes, that would be the C&E shop. Do you recall a po1 named roger warick? A second class named Fulton, A Chief named Drew? Another Chief nicknamed Ah... Ah so named due to his penchant for avoiding the weight of making any sort of decision? etc., etc., etc.
Do the terms plastic fantastic(Corvette) and ship-over recall any memories for ya? How's 'bout bahooter which I seem to recall was an exclamation of sorts from some scurvy individual? =;^}
Send me an email and we'll sort this out.
Posted by: bthun at March 13, 2009 06:32 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...3L berthing? Steve Gunn, Doug Proper, Al Winfree.... Mr. Cahoon, Ens. Hafer, Don Mabus, John Hunter and George Braun down below...yeah....now to figger out the email addy
Posted by: CW4 at March 13, 2009 08:17 PM
Hey Cass, it really is a small world, huh? Someone from my ship, my department, my division, my shop at the same time.....who would have ever thought it possible out of all the people in the whole world....
I am amazed.
Posted by: CW4 at March 13, 2009 08:21 PM
Not so amazing Kev --
THIS. IS. VEEEEEEE-CEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Love the Innertube. Guy I flew with for eight months in RVN in '69 and '70 was a lurker at John's place until he sent me an e-gram and a pic asking if I was the same guy who wrote under my tagline, because he'd been one of the protagonists of a TINS! I wrote.
Posted by: BillT at March 14, 2009 05:23 AM
Good exposure of liberal idiocy. A lot of that going around in the "San Francisco of Texas"
I'm reminded of a conversation with a friend at lunch a while back. He said he heard that recently there were as many suicides in our military as deaths in Iraq. I asked him which number was the anomaly?
While he was busy looking stunned, I asked how many murders were there in D. C. during the same period of time?
Posted by: conagher at March 14, 2009 10:49 AM
I had a dream last night in which the USS America had been converted to a land-locked museum. This morning, a Google on "C&E Shop" turned up you guys. I was there, maybe a little later than some of you guys; 74 - 77. Mr. Cahoon, CPO Drew, EM1 Warwick are a few names I remember. How 'bout Bridger, Jim Sox, Andy Kutzko? I'm sure more will eventually come to me.
KP, were you the guy with the 'very unique' means of securing your coffee cup?
Posted by: JNygren at May 13, 2009 08:12 AM